New age A/C charging discussion

[roddster]

  Yep, my 67 GT 350 does not have A/C.  But my 67 GT500 lil'Red tribute does.  So, let's hear the how, where, and whatever about recharging the factory A/C with R-134.
  Post any YouTube shorts I could go to. 
   PS: the Air compressor is brand new (rebuilt) and the lines have been cleaned.

[Bob Gaines]

134 is less efficient then R12 and so unless you have a larger evaporator and condenser it will not get as cold. You may want to check on facebook ebay etc for R12 which is still available and if everything is new and sealed will provide years of service without needing recharge. The higher price of sourcing R12 is offset by the added cost and non original look of the improvements needed to make 134 cool efficiently. At least that is the conclusion I came to when researching the issue .Best of luck whatever you decide.

[Road Reptile]

Hi Rod,
Need to know if the evaporator and condensor cores are new or originals?
All the parts that had mineral oil must be flushed clean or replaced. The oil used with R-134 (PAG) IS NOT COMPATABLE. There are blended/synthetic oils that also claim to work
There are also differences in coil types and fins of both evaporator and condensor cores. Most conversions are kits that give you all new parts. The drier should also be new. Please list what parts you have changed/replaced. This is critical to determine the oil capacity also. One step at a time we can explain this.It is so simple to stay R-12 And it may be worth considering...depending on what you have bought/replaced.
R.R.

[FL SAAC]

Also running an experiment

Patiently awaiting for recommendations

[roddster]

The condenser and evaporator are original. They too have been flushed. After the first few comments I'ok to ahead and get some R-12. It only takes 1 3/4 pounds.

[acapulco350]

A good vacuum is key to a system that cools properly

You will see higher pressures if you don't vacuum correctly and won't be able to get a full charge in the system

R12 - the way to go

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Good luck finding R12 rather than one of the substitutes - that do work ok and are compatible with the old oil. 134 has a smaller molecule so it will leak out of the old style rubber hoses. You need to swap over to the barrier (teflon lined) hoses to use 134. You'll want to replace the drier too.

[Bob Gaines]

Good luck finding R12 rather than one of the substitutes - that do work ok and are compatible with the old oil. 134 has a smaller molecule so it will leak out of the old style rubber hoses. You need to swap over to the barrier (teflon lined) hoses to use 134. You'll want to replace the drier too.

Not hard to find by me. I just did a quick check and found about 25-30 different amounts of R 12 for sale locally in my KC area on facebook marketplace. I can't believe my area is anything special and suspect it is the same way in most larger metropolitan areas.

[gt350shelb]

i have converted many car s to 134 / the key is it uses less freon  to charge for same result / 80% of r 12 charge  works just fine .  and i have flushed systems and not flushed systems  never had a problem either way .

[roddster]

I do have and am using a commercial, laboratory grade vacuum pump to evacuate the system.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Good luck finding R12 rather than one of the substitutes -

Not hard to find by me. I just did a quick check and found about 25-30 different amounts of R 12 for sale locally in my KC area on facebook marketplace. I can't believe my area is anything special and suspect it is the same way in most larger metropolitan areas.

Real R12 is pricey and rare around here ($60-100 a can at swap meets). There are a lot of substitutes. We used to get R12 out of Mexico and it had propane mixed in. It worked but you were always worried about leaks. (Using propane in an R-12 system can potentially improve the Coefficient of Performance (COP) due to its higher volumetric capacity and lower refrigerant charge requirements, but it's important to note that propane is flammable and requires careful handling. )
Dichlorodifluoromethane (R-12) is a colorless gas popularly known by the genericized brand name Freon its manufacture was banned in developed countries in 1996, and in developing countries in 2010 out of concerns about its damaging effect on the ozone layer.

[Bob Gaines]

Sure it is more expensive and not right for everyone but if compare what it costs to upgrade and what it does for the look vs cost of a R12 you can see a significant savings in parts,labor and appearance .That is at least for those who care about looks and performance on a historical car. Around me Ads currently list 12 oz R 12 cans for 25-35.00.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Around me Ads currently list 12 oz R 12 cans for 25-35.00.

Buy a bunch and smuggle it to SAAC 50 - you'll make a fortune. The Enviro Safe R12 substitute is about $25 a can here and real R-12 hits 100. Since they no longer make it all that is available is old stock and what has been recovered when they junk old systems. I've still got 1/2 dozen cans tucked away in the garage. Here in CA there is even a $10 deposit on the 134 self recharge kit - they don't want you tossing the empty can in the landfill.

Deposit Refund Requirements:
Consumers will only receive the $10.00 refundable deposit when all three requirements are met.
1. Consumers must submit a receipt or valid proof of purchase.
2. Container must be returned within 90 days of purchase date.
3. Container must not have been breached, opened other than self-sealing valve.
It is illegal to and NO person shall dispose or destroy any small container of automotive R-134a unless performed in accordance with Section 95360 et seq. of California Code of Regulations.

Effective on January 1, 2010, California State Law requires that all small refrigerant container purchasers must pay a $10.00 deposit per container. Small R-134a container/can is any packaging that is able to hold more than 2 ounces and less than 2 pounds of refrigerant gas.

[Bob Gaines]

Around me Ads currently list 12 oz R 12 cans for 25-35.00.

Buy a bunch and smuggle it to SAAC 50 - you'll make a fortune. The Enviro Safe R12 substitute is about $25 a can here and real R-12 hits 100. Since they no longer make it all that is available is old stock and what has been recovered when they junk old systems. I've still got 1/2 dozen cans tucked away in the garage. Here in CA there is even a $10 deposit on the 134 self recharge kit - they don't want you tossing the empty can in the landfill.

Deposit Refund Requirements:
Consumers will only receive the $10.00 refundable deposit when all three requirements are met.
1. Consumers must submit a receipt or valid proof of purchase.
2. Container must be returned within 90 days of purchase date.
3. Container must not have been breached, opened other than self-sealing valve.
It is illegal to and NO person shall dispose or destroy any small container of automotive R-134a unless performed in accordance with Section 95360 et seq. of California Code of Regulations.

Effective on January 1, 2010, California State Law requires that all small refrigerant container purchasers must pay a $10.00 deposit per container. Small R-134a container/can is any packaging that is able to hold more than 2 ounces and less than 2 pounds of refrigerant gas.

It's your idea you should run with it.  

[roddster]

98SVT: well Illinois is bad enough but what you described is yet another reason I would not live in California. Nice place to visit though.