428 coolant loss new motor

[1967 eight barrel]

My recent rebuild has 173 miles on it. It was broke in on a dyno and ran well. I noted the coolant level was low about a quart and topped off after a 10 mile drive. When I returned I had the same issue and checked the oil. Nothing appeared in the oil. I rented a system pressurizer and noted it held about 17psi for a hour with little to no loss. I did it three times to verify results. I did note that the left side gasket at the intake/head looked wet. I decided to re-torque the intake and verify 35 lbs in factory sequence. I noted there was some smoke after pressurizing the system for about a mile and it seemed to disappear afterwards. When I returned home I had some water in the oil and noted some oil in that corner. I used Felpro 1020's as recommended on this forum, block was reutilized as the rebuild was prompted by fuel in the oil. There was no issue. The heads were changed, but they were built and pressure checked, not to mention surfaced. I am not sure if I should just suspect the intake or just had the misfortune of a head gasket failure to go along with piss poor intake gaskets. I only used non-hardening sealer around the water passages, as a C7ZX intake isn't cheap to replace these days and I didn't want to pry much for removal if necessary.
Any real help here would be helpful. I was thinking of Cometic head gaskets with the 4.165 bore instead of the 4.400 Felpro 1020 if the census is headgaskets are likely the culpret.
Thanks for help in advance.

[shelbydoug]

I would suspect that there is something wrong with the valve seats in the heads. Particularly if you have had harden seats installed.

FE heads are very thin there and often crack between the valves.

If you pressure test the engine not running, the pressure of the valve springs with the valve or valves closed, is enough pressure to seal the crack while testing. That would indicate a crack in one of the seats.

In general, Ford heads should not have hardened seats installed. That's a GM thing.

In my experience though, even a drip of coolant into the combustion chamber will cause a slight misfire like you have a fouled plug so with the data you posted, there isn't a clear cut indicator of a smoking gun.


FE head gaskets tend to leak on the corners of the heads outside the last head bolt near the oil drain back holes. Usually oil, not coolant in that case though.

You want to use the Felpro blue coated head gaskets. The bore doesn't matter much, that just affects compression ratio a little.

[Bigblock]

My $.02.

I've had 3 390 engines over the years with aluminum PI manifolds. Two when I bought them had water in the oil and I pulled the intake to find white hardened water deposits from the bottom corners of the water openings into the adjacent port. One port had water droplets on the inside walls. So I would replace with a 390 FelPro gasket set with Permatex non-hardening. Couple years go by and water in the oil again, do it again. The last 390 instance, after about two years of use the car would start stalling and wouldn't idle after a couple of minutes of warming up and there was some white exhaust. When cold no problems and depending on the air temperatures would take longer or shorter to happen. Took of the radiator cap and let it run and wouldn't happen for quite awhile. So I figured head gasket, pressure. Started the process removed the manifold and found #5 port wet inside. It had the blue ring gaskets and the bottom of the blue on many ports were not compressed. So I thought warped manifold and had a shop straight line it and was told it was ok. After speaking to a FE guy it was mentioned that the aluminum intake can be slightly wider at the top and possibly not fit tight at the bottom of the ports especially if relying on the blue rings instead of gasket sealer.
He recommended FelPro 1246S3 which is .065 instead of .060. Also to use the Right Stuff from Permatex around the water outlets and adjacent ports. Optimum Black for the inner ports. I did this and it solved the problem. Been 6 years now and still good.

[pbf777]

     A quart of coolant in ten miles, if passing thru any one cylinder, would be detectable via a spark plug inspection, and should still be so if passing thru several.   

     The advantage to the Fel-Pro #1246S3 gasket is the "S", as in a steel sheet core which aids in controlling the post installation migration tendencies of the standard #1246, not the perhaps additional .005" in gasket thickness. And, a thicker gasket is not what the doctor would prescribe, in order to address poor surface relationships due to machining or excessive corrosion.

     And other than in the corners of the juncture of the heads, block and intake, perhaps the "china-wall" negating the corks if one chooses, and if minor but not excessive corrosion about the water ports, only a sum commensurate to fill such voids, aka. spread very thinly, do not apply "sealers" any where else in this endeavor, would be my recommendation.   

     Also, do not exceed the 35 ft.lbs. torque value, in multiple steps, as with the aluminum intake this would be hazardous.   
     

     Scott.

[motorhead428]

My 2cents. I have built a lot of engine all brands all sizes. Intake manifolds can be a real pain in the ___. I fit the intake with flat gaskets about the same thickness as the gaskets that I use on final assembly. I check all 4 corners, top and bottom of the corner with feeler gauges. Intake Manifolds will warp, the heads can be cut different amounts and slight angle differences. Some times you can even test fit the manifold with no gasket just to see the fitment ( the height will be off for the bolt holes), some times the manifold will rock they are so warped. The FE manifolds are the one of the hardest to fit, because you also have to watch how the valve cover surface lines up. If the manifold has been powder coated, you can bet its warped after they bake in in the oven hanging on one hook.  1967 8 barrel, If you remove the intake look closely at how the intake gasket is compressed at the top and bottom of the ports on all 4 corners.  Rick

[1967 eight barrel]

Well, I pulled the plugs and I have about a tablespoon of wet oil sitting atop of the pistons. on the left side of the engine. Very strange considering the heads were done by a very reputable builder. New seats, valves, springs, seats, viton postive seals. I did run into a write up about an issue with the performance rocker shafts with two holes per rocker, or factory single hole shafts with oiling holes facing upwards. I didn't think the headgasket would allow oil in several cylinders at once, however I would assume if there was a leak it could pull oil in via the head/intake gasket.  This gets stranger by the moment. Solid ideas are welcome. Just change the intake gaskets, or pull the heads?

[67350#1242]

I would think a compression test would help to point to or eliminate head gasket.  Leaky intake gasket can certainly suck in oil.  My bet is intake.

[1967 eight barrel]

I think the oil situation is also confusing, unless this is in part the coolant being pulled into the intake gaskets. The oil is restricted to the rocker shafts.

[motorhead428]

In general when oil is showing up on one bank (side)of an engine, the intake is not sealing at the bottom of the ports. If a reputable shop did the heads, there is very little chance that the valve guides are that loose or that the valve seals are damaged. Look between the valve spring coils too see if the seals are damaged. I put hardened valve seat in my own FE heads. I believe that Ford FE truck engines came with seats installed from the factory. Its not just a chevy thing, I have seen exhaust valve seats recede in other brands of engines.

[2112]

Sure sounds head gaskety to me.

Were the head studs/bolts re-torqued after the run-in on the dyno?

[1967 eight barrel]

Both sides have oil in all four cylinders. Being the heads were surfaced .010. Deck of block was prefect as well. I used Felpro 1020 headgaskets, which require no re-torquing. I have not ran the engine over 4500 and have been pretty easy on it. I see clearly the felpro intake gaskets on both sides of the front side of the heads look soaked. I am leaning towards the intake gaskets as well. I am relatively sure the printo seals leaked. I am going to get the new version with seals on both sides with the metal reinforcement. Combined with sealers I hope this is a moot issue.

[motorhead428]

Check to see how the manifold fits on the four corners top and bottom with flat gaskets (no sealant, no raised bead) with feeler guages. Before your reinstall the manifold.

[67350#1242]

plasti-guage could also help with this check.

[1967 eight barrel]

The 1246 felpros are soggy as hell and wavy between ports. They seem to appear as if they shifted as well. When I removed the 427 fuel filter canister bracket from the head you could follow the trail of coolant from the front corner of the intake manifold.  The oil did have a slight amount of froth in a couple places. However for the most part doesn't look completely compromised.  I bought another seven quarts of Penngrade break-in oil and a gasket replacement with Fel Pro 1246 S3.  I am debating if I want to just put five quarts of Rotella, let it run a few minutes to make sure most of the water is out and then change the filter and Penngrade break-in oil and a new filter?
Consensus would be nice from someone who has cleaned oil that has mixed slightly with water. Thanks again.

[1967 eight barrel]

P.S. Should I re-torque the head gaskets while I have access to the head bolts? I used Fel Pro 1020's . If I should re-torque them is there a process other than following the pattern at factory specs?