289 Competition camshaft

[shelbydoug]

Does anyone know what camshaft(s) the "Race shop" was using on the competition engines they were building? Were the Weber carbed engines using the same cam?

[Dan Case]

PM sent

[camp upshur]

Do know that they mostly used grinds from
the master lobe profiles of Jack Engle and later Don Sullivan.
Anything more specific i.e. grinds, combos, etc, would make for a fabulous thread.
Hint, hint 🤓...
Thanks

[427heaven]

Very small be todays standards, I have one laying in a stash pile somewhere. If memory serves my right it was approx. .540 lift  270-80 duration with 110 lobe centers something like that. Like a street performance cam of today.

[Dan Case]

Do know that they mostly used grinds from
the master lobe profiles of Jack Engle and later Don Sullivan.
Anything more specific i.e. grinds, combos, etc, would make for a fabulous thread.
Hint, hint 🤓...
Thanks

The trick is Shelby American usually (but not 100%) used one group of parts and sold everybody else something else, including camshaft versions.

I have never found a way to post information from a large spreadsheet into tiny text boxes in forums.

I collected information verbatim from Ford, Shelby, and distributors of Shelby and Ford performance parts PUBLISHED as specifications through about 1970. Groups of data were based on different PUBLISHED lift points and valve lashes.  Said another way, the way data taken was different in different publications even for a single part number.

I compiled my list before deciding what to use in our play engine. I did not have copies of the various submittals and revisions Shelby American submitted to the FIA between 1962 and 1964 at the time. Some slack day, whenever that might be, I would like to go back and add quotes from each version of FIA registration submittal.  To expand on the comment above, what Shelby American submitted is not necessarily always exactly what they used. They were very good at giving themselves technical advantages over even their customers in many ways.

[427heaven]

The real problem was valve spring technology back in the day. That was the achellies heel of making serious horsepower, valve FLOAT and broken valve springs were a regular occurrence at the track.

[kjspeed]

I have never found a way to post information from a large spreadsheet into tiny text boxes in forums.

Dan, if it's a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet you could try the Microsoft Print to PDF function and add each sheet as an attachment to a post.

[Dan Case]

Too large width and height to be legible when reduced to a little forum box size.

[gt350hr]

  Doug,
      The "original' camshaft was an SK 882. This was a Holman Moody grind ( no doubt "created by Don Sullivan - rip). It was 1/2 of what would become the SK27337-3 , C6FE-B and C7FE- A "Le Mans" cam. During '65 they moved away from that cam and used an Engle #56 and Engle valve springs. The easy way to tell in period photos is the Engle equipped engines had blue anodized  aluminum valve spring retainers. They also ran the "Super Snake 291" that was another Don Sullivan creation.  I know they tried others because  I believe the roller used in the Cobra Weber roller engines was a Crane R289HI. the late Ray Wolfe had 5 of them I was able to buy back in '69. Others will have other information.
    Randy

[427heaven]

Randy- Is it possible to share what the cam specs of the day were ?

[gt350hr]

     The commonly published duraation numbers ( @.050) for the SK882 and C7FE LeMand cam are 252* with a .330 lobe lift which gave a gross lift of .528". TRW later sold the same cam (TP109) but advertised the lift at .508" or the net lift with .020 lash.
  The C6FE-B cam was a "slight " bit different duration on the exhaust @ 254 and a tiny bit more lift  at .536 gross. This "exhaust profile" later became the Shelby "SuperSnake 291" as a single profile ( intake and exhaust). I would have to check the #56 Engle I still have but IIRC it was 258@ .050 and had a .350 lobe for .540 net lift. It was a single pattern ground on 108" lobe separation.
    Ford was VERY limited on cam profiles . ''Sully" ( Don Sullivan) spent allot of time on "cam phasing" which is comprised of lobe separation and advance and retard of the camshaft in the engine while using the profiles Ford had. A bright young engineer named Don Tewles (later General Kinetics Cams) used the Ford computer to design cam lobes and go against the grain of hand drawing and calculating cam lobes. This didn't set well with Sully but he relented that it was the future of cam designing. The new computer profiles carried new names like E1, E2, E3,E4 etc. These became the Trans Am , Nascar 366" and drag race 427 profiles or DOZX -A , D1ZX - AA , C8AX-D. Obviously first released for the 427 ( in tunnel port configuration). When first released as the 427 cam , it did not require the special radius tappets that the 302 and 351 needed. This was a direct result of the higher rpm operation of the small block engines and higher load springs needed to control valve float.
     Randy

[68countrysedan]

FWIW department

Shelby American Parts and Accessories Catalog - Aug. 1, 1966

GT 350 Racing Camshaft kit PN S1CR-6250--2

I/O: 29 deg. BTDC
I/C: 75 deg ABDC

Intake Duration: 284 deg

E/O: 75 deg. BBDC
E/C : 29 deg ATDC

Exhaust Duration: 284 deg
Valve lift 0.445"
I tappet clearance (hot) 0.018"
E tappet clearance (hot) 0.020:

Timing measured at the valve with 0.001" lift.


289 Cobra High-Rev Racing Engine  PN S1CR-6003-6

BHP: 395 @ 7000 rpm
Max Torque: 330 @4100

Camshaft

Valve lift: 0.485"

I/O : 40 deg BTDC
I/C : 78 deg ABDC
Intake duration: 298 deg

E/O : 84 deg BBDC
E/C:  25 deg ATDC
Exhaust duration: 289 deg

Intake tappet clearance (hot) .012"
Exhaust tappet clearance (hot) 0.014"

Valve lifters: roller
Camshaft type: roller tappet

Specs taken at 0.001 valve lift

Analyze away. Never noticed the roller cam spec in the race engine.

[427heaven]

Thanks guys 

[shelbydoug]

Interesting. If you take this CompCams profile, change to 1.7 rockers, it winds up right in the original range of thinking on the factory competition cams?

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=820&sb=2