1967 shelby radios

[Bigblock]

Just curious!

Is this a radio delete car with the radio?

[JD]

Just curious!

Is this a radio delete car with the radio?

(all '67 Shelby's came with a AM radio)

[gt350cs]

JD,

Are you stating that ALL 1967 GT350 and GT500 came with an AM radio? Or are you saying that all that all cars that received radios per the Invoice received an AM radio, but some cars were delivered without radios? The Invoice for my car does not list a radio. should I assume that the car was sold without a radio? I didn't purchase the car until the late 1970s and did have a radio at that time.

Thanks,

Dennis

[Richstang]

It's rare to find the radio listed on the '67 Marti Reports in the statistics, but I have found a later VIN car that noted 2,762 cars were ordered as radio deletes.
I have one early car Marti Report that notes 461 (number hard to read) were ordered with an AM radio.

This is just hearsay, but I thought it was mentioned radios were installed at SA to save a few dollars from what Ford charged them.

[Bob Gaines]

JD,

Are you stating that ALL 1967 GT350 and GT500 came with an AM radio? Or are you saying that all that all cars that received radios per the Invoice received an AM radio, but some cars were delivered without radios? The Invoice for my car does not list a radio. should I assume that the car was sold without a radio? I didn't purchase the car until the late 1970s and did have a radio at that time.

Thanks,

Dennis

They all came with radios as far I know but a extremely small few came with AM FM mono . I think I asked DM about AM 8 track and he said no.

[JD]

Hello Dennis, It's been my understanding that the cars did have AM radios and at (SAAC) judging I believe it is expected that the car have one unless there is paperwork that can show (from delivery - not Marti Report) that it didn't or that it had other than the AM.

(I think that is what Bob G is saying above, but he doesn't need me to speak for him - I listen when Bob talks.)

With all the inconsistency's on the '67's I would not be surprised that a few got through without a radio but I don't imagine it's many.  Could be the dealer wanted to make that radio sale and somehow made that happen?

[Bob Gaines]

Hello Dennis, It's been my understanding that the cars did have AM radios and at (SAAC) judging I believe it is expected that the car have one unless there is paperwork that can show (from delivery - not Marti Report) that it didn't or that it had other than the AM.

(I think that is what Bob G is saying above, but he doesn't need me to speak for him - I listen when Bob talks.)

With all the inconsistency's on the '67's I would not be surprised that a few got through without a radio but I don't imagine it's many.  Could be the dealer wanted to make that radio sale and somehow made that happen?

+1A radio installation in 65 and 66 was more money if purchased through Ford on the assemblyline compared to what a dealer or outside contractor could do it for. That is why the radio installs on 65/66's were not done at Ford but High Performance Motors so Shelby could make more from my understanding. By 67 that loop hole was filled. Dealer installs would typically cost more in 67 to install from my understanding which is why you saw the radios being installed at Ford . Not to forget most 67 Shelby's were built on speculation not specific dealer orders. SA built the cars anticipating demand . With that in mind is probably one reason radios were installed on the vast majority if not all. 

[gt350cs]

Thanks Bob and JD.

I just recently purchased copies of all the documents that Dave Mathews had on my 1967s. Included were Invoices on two of the cars, but none for the third. I was very surprised to see that the GT500 Invoice that I got did not list a radio. Most of the Invoices I have seen do show the radio. The Invoice did list the Deluxe Wheels at $151.74, which causes me to be curious as to why no radio is listed. The production Order Form listed under Optional Equipment the Deluxe Wheels but the Radio is blank. I pulled the radio out years ago and put it up, but I don't recall what was in the car when I got it. Guess I try to figure out where I put it.

Thanks again for the information.

Dennis 

[gt350cs]

I want to apologize to the original poster for taking this thread off track. I am sure that you have a very nice car for sale and as attested be Stephen Becker worth the price. The focus of this discussion should have remained your car. In my seeing the comments about radios I should have taken my questions offline with the individuals who made comments concerning radios.

Please accept my apology and let's get back to helping you with the sale of your car.

Dennis

[sfm5s081]

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your concern. Whatever we can do to help the saac community is good with me. Also just validating my car. The more comments, discussions, the merrier

[gt350cs]

sfm5s081,

Thanks, I just felt bad when I looked back through the thread and saw where we were. I see this happen all the time and I should be more careful to not be the one to take away from the intent of the posting. Since you don't mind the interruption, I would like to ask JD and Bob if the documents I have would be verification that the car was delivered to the Dealership without a radio. That being the case I would assume without confirmation of a dealer installed radio the car should be radio delete. Is this correct?

[Bob Gaines]

sfm5s081,

Thanks, I just felt bad when I looked back through the thread and saw where we were. I see this happen all the time and I should be more careful to not be the one to take away from the intent of the posting. Since you don't mind the interruption, I would like to ask JD and Bob if the documents I have would be verification that the car was delivered to the Dealership without a radio. That being the case I would assume without confirmation of a dealer installed radio the car should be radio delete. Is this correct?

I would not assume . I have seen the radio left off invoices before. I have seen Marti Autoworks reports differ in wording between similar equipped cars. The same with Ford documentation. That in itself is not a smoking gun.  Maybe clerical maybe just because they were occasionally written up differently. The price of the car would be different too.  It would be out of the ordinary IMO not to have a radio just like in 68 and 69/70. If you entered in concours and given what the consensus of opinion is, the burden of proof would be on you to prove that it was a radio delete car beyond a Marti report or dealer invoice that left it off. A comparison of dealer invoices between your car and another equally equipped compared to yours that differed in invoice price all other things equal (shipping etc.) would be compelling for instance. Have you reached out to Dave Mathews? He may have more insight on if it did or if it didn't . Of course on a radio delete car like some 65 and 66's were equipped they didn't have a antenna. Does your fender have a hole for a antenna now and has the fender ever been replaced?     

[J_Speegle]

Might want to look through the DSO group and its related Add/Delete sheets as well as other cars built in the same group since your focusing, so far by focusing on the Marti report, on how San Jose built the car rather than how the car was sold to the first buyer.

Just an idea but believe you will find that the Add/Delete sheets will not show anything concerning the radio and that the other cars built under the same instructions received radios.  Are the doors original to the car? And if so do they have the speaker holes cut out?

Just a few things to check and evidence/data points to collect

[Richstang]

sfm5s081,

Thanks, I just felt bad when I looked back through the thread and saw where we were. I see this happen all the time and I should be more careful to not be the one to take away from the intent of the posting. Since you don't mind the interruption, I would like to ask JD and Bob if the documents I have would be verification that the car was delivered to the Dealership without a radio. That being the case I would assume without confirmation of a dealer installed radio the car should be radio delete. Is this correct?

I would not assume . I have seen the radio left off invoices before. I have seen Marti Autoworks reports differ in wording between similar equipped cars. The same with Ford documentation. That in itself is not a smoking gun.  Maybe clerical maybe just because they were occasionally written up differently. The price of the car would be different too.  It would be out of the ordinary IMO not to have a radio just like in 68 and 69/70. If you entered in concours and given what the consensus of opinion is, the burden of proof would be on you to prove that it was a radio delete car beyond a Marti report or dealer invoice that left it off. A comparison of dealer invoices between your car and another equally equipped compared to yours that differed in invoice price all other things equal (shipping etc.) would be compelling for instance. Have you reached out to Dave Mathews? He may have more insight on if it did or if it didn't . Of course on a radio delete car like some 65 and 66's were equipped they didn't have a antenna. Does your fender have a hole for a antenna now and has the fender ever been replaced?   

Bob, do you mean SA invoices versus a dealer window sticker?

Earlier in this thread I mentioned a cost savings to SA as a possible factor in why many '67's might have been shipped from San Jose as a radio delete car with the intention of getting installed at SA.

If the Marti reports are correct (even though we know they are not consistent and occasionally off a few numbers in totals) could it be that all early cars were equipped with the AM radio from Ford (Marti reports 461 units). If customer complaints starting rolling in about radio interference perhaps SA changed their orders to radio delete cars from Ford (Marti reports 2,762 units). Then the antenna could be relocated to the rear quarter and also dealer installed to save assembly time at LAX too. If so, did SA supply the radio and antenna or did the dealer order them From Ford. The SA invoice might not reflect the $47.17 charge, but the window sticker from the dealer would have the charge ($57.51 retail). Either way, I imagine some cars might have been sold without a radio to reduce costs for a strapped customer.

As Jeff said, we need to check the DSO's for radio delete's and report back with any findings.

[Bob Gaines]

sfm5s081,

Thanks, I just felt bad when I looked back through the thread and saw where we were. I see this happen all the time and I should be more careful to not be the one to take away from the intent of the posting. Since you don't mind the interruption, I would like to ask JD and Bob if the documents I have would be verification that the car was delivered to the Dealership without a radio. That being the case I would assume without confirmation of a dealer installed radio the car should be radio delete. Is this correct?

I would not assume . I have seen the radio left off invoices before. I have seen Marti Autoworks reports differ in wording between similar equipped cars. The same with Ford documentation. That in itself is not a smoking gun.  Maybe clerical maybe just because they were occasionally written up differently. The price of the car would be different too.  It would be out of the ordinary IMO not to have a radio just like in 68 and 69/70. If you entered in concours and given what the consensus of opinion is, the burden of proof would be on you to prove that it was a radio delete car beyond a Marti report or dealer invoice that left it off. A comparison of dealer invoices between your car and another equally equipped compared to yours that differed in invoice price all other things equal (shipping etc.) would be compelling for instance. Have you reached out to Dave Mathews? He may have more insight on if it did or if it didn't . Of course on a radio delete car like some 65 and 66's were equipped they didn't have a antenna. Does your fender have a hole for a antenna now and has the fender ever been replaced?   

Bob, do you mean SA invoices versus a dealer window sticker?

Earlier in this thread I mentioned a cost savings to SA as a possible factor in why many '67's might have been shipped from San Jose as a radio delete car with the intention of getting installed at SA.

If the Marti reports are correct (even though we know they are not consistent and occasionally off a few numbers in totals) could it be that all early cars were equipped with the AM radio from Ford (Marti reports 461 units). If customer complaints starting rolling in about radio interference perhaps SA changed their orders to radio delete cars from Ford (Marti reports 2,762 units). Then the antenna could be relocated to the rear quarter and also dealer installed to save assembly time at LAX too. If so, did SA supply the radio and antenna or did the dealer order them From Ford. The SA invoice might not reflect the $47.17 charge, but the window sticker from the dealer would have the charge ($57.51 retail). Either way, I imagine some cars might have been sold without a radio to reduce costs for a strapped customer.

As Jeff said, we need to check the DSO's for radio delete's and report back with any findings.

You would want to use SA invoices to the dealer if comparing to each other.  Apples to apples so to speak. DSO as Jeff suggested would be another comparison. The antennas were overwhelmingly installed on the front fender . Rarely were the antenna's installed on the rear quarter by comparison. You are making a big assumption that "many" cars were radio delete and that there may be some intent to have SA install them instead. As many examples have shown something that could be done at Ford was cheaper to have done at Ford rather then SA. Initially as I mentioned earlier 65 and 66 models were all ordered radio delete because Shelby could have a contractor do the job cheaper or at least paperwork wise  . that might be another story in itself  .    Radios were not installed as a matter of practice at SA in 67 . The same goes for antennas . The antenna was typically installed by the dealer at pre delivery. The antennas were typically included in the trunk by Ford after installing the radio on the assemblyline. The typical Shelby buyer would not fit the strapped for cash consumer. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but is out of the ordinary. Can you give some insight as to the questions about fender if original ,replaced or if antenna hole posed previously?