Correct Wheels and Tires For '67

[Richstang]

Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.

As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.

Bob,
All of the PO's I have gathered match the grid code pages wheel data. As JD pointed out in the 2011 registry, PO's were used to gather the quantities, and where PO's were missing owner supplied info was used in its place. There are about 28 cars with no data across the entire production run. I've noted the current wheels on about 6 of those cars and keep track of them separately.

[SNAKEBIT]

This has been very interesting and informative reading. Thanks for diggin' around and putting up factory and club (one in the same) information about these wheels on this forum. I guess that the registry is what helps the rest of us, understand what was ordered back then and how many of these cars are known? Most of this discussion is way over my head. Fascinating, captain.

[shelbydoug]

Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.

As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.

It is not my position to argue with data. What I am saying is that there is conflicting data. The Marti report simply doesn't agree with the DSO INTERPRETATION.

I'm fine with the DSO showing 10 spokes for it. In fact, that's the wheel I have for it.

I'm just pointing out the contradictions.


I would agree to the PO as being the tie breaker, but it has yet to surface for this car. If there is a contradiction with my car, how many others fall into that category?

I personally wouldn't "risk my life" on "Shelby data", but that's just me.

[Bob Gaines]

FYI in concours competition we have never deducted for wheel option. Factory type wheel or not and or condition yes. You have the way the cars left the factory however I have heard first hand stories of buyers of hubcap cars insisting on a upgrade to a different factory wheel . I have heard stories of magstar car buyers trading for the tenspokes . Believe it or not I have also heard stories of the reverse being done meaning wanting the hubcaps instead of the optional wheels to bring the cost down a couple hundred dollars. It didn't happen all of the time(trading wheels) but apparently not that out of the ordinary. With that said and what with being delivered to first customer from the dealer the line in the sand so to speak in good conscience I felt it makes the most sense to give the benefit of the doubt for this occurrence. At least when I am judging . Others may think differently.

[shelbydoug]

FYI in concours competition we have never deducted for wheel option. Factory type wheel or not and or condition yes. You have the way the cars left the factory however I have heard first hand stories of buyers of hubcap cars insisting on a upgrade to a different factory wheel . I have heard stories of magstar car buyers trading for the tenspokes . Believe it or not I have also heard stories of the reverse being done meaning wanting the hubcaps instead of the optional wheels to bring the cost down a couple hundred dollars. It didn't happen all of the time(trading wheels) but apparently not that out of the ordinary. With that said and what with being delivered to first customer from the dealer the line in the sand so to speak in good conscience I felt it makes the most sense to give the benefit of the doubt for this occurrence. At least when I am judging . Others may think differently.

The Supreme Court should be as fair.

[Richstang]

Doug,
I looked up #3074 in its DSO 89-2608. That DSO starts out with Magstar wheels and about halfway through switches over to 10-spokes. You car is in the bottom 2/3rds along with the 10-spoke optioned cars. There are a handful of cars noted to have the wheel covers. For now, I assume if there were any Shelby supplied wheel shortages during production the steel rim/wheel cover versions were used to keep the line moving along.

As JD mentions, it does appear the wheel covers were the least used wheel option at around only 25% of production.

It is not my position to argue with data. What I am saying is that there is conflicting data. The Marti report simply doesn't agree with the DSO INTERPRETATION.

I'm fine with the DSO showing 10 spokes for it. In fact, that's the wheel I have for it.

I'm just pointing out the contradictions.


I would agree to the PO as being the tie breaker, but it has yet to surface for this car. If there is a contradiction with my car, how many others fall into that category?

I personally wouldn't "risk my life" on "Shelby data", but that's just me.

Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)

Regarding the wheels, I was under the impression that Marti got his info from Dave not the Ford Data. However, since Dave was likely using the PO's as the source of the wheel info, that's where the conflict may have occurred. Each may have assumed different wheels based on the DSO info in the microfilms or SVO sheets. I don't have a copy of either of these for your cars DSO group.

I have found some Ford documents (SVO sheets) that list the deleted wheel and cover assembly and noted to add "Customer Supplied" wheels. But the question becomes, like the packaged and interior trim codes, should the wheels be the same across the entire DSO? I would think yes for wheel covers versus Shelby supplied wheels, but maybe the breakdown doesn't exist in Ford data for the two different Shelby supplied wheels. 

I'm not sure we'll ever know how many other cars have wheel contradictions comparing the Registry to Marti reports or to the DSO groups.

Either way, it's good to hear there is no penalty in judging for wheels versions, as long as they are factory correct.

[JD]

I thought Marti had the films and was supplying info to SAAC, not the other way around. (?)

[557]

I think Marti has the ford records and SAAC has the Shelby American stuff (which ol shel tried to get back at one point...cringe)

[Richstang]

Marti would likely would have the most complete Ford data available, while SAAC / Dave may not have every DSO, including cancelled orders, and every change notice issued.

I suspect Ford only had two options listed, "Kelsey Steel wheels with Covers" or "Customer Supplied" (Magstar "Deluxe" or "Shelby" 10-spoke).
Thus the SAI PO's are critical as the deciding factor on the Customer Supplied aspect.
Dave would likely have supplied that info to Marti and therefore would likely be the more trusted source for wheel type.

[shelbydoug]

[/quote]


Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)



[/quote]

Yes. Although the car was purchased from Gotham Ford in NY, NY, the original owner drove the car to LA to go to school.

While he was there, the car was serviced by Mel Burns Ford and he had the stripes painted on by them.

I did ask him if he knew that they were the "Super Snake" stripes and he didn't know what that was and why he picked this stripe pattern.

He asked me if the car "still had the GT40 seats in it?" They didn't when I  bought it and I've never seen anything that would resemble that kind of seat in a "Mustang" or for that matter, any other car.

Also claimed to have had Burns install a 427 "block",

Just part of the unique history of this car.

[Richstang]

Wait...#3074 had/has Super Snake stripes added to it! That's awesome!!! (Any more pictures... please)



[/quote]

Yes. Although the car was purchased from Gotham Ford in NY, NY, the original owner drove the car to LA to go to school.

While he was there, the car was serviced by Mel Burns Ford and he had the stripes painted on by them.

I did ask him if he knew that they were the "Super Snake" stripes and he didn't know what that was and why he picked this stripe pattern.

He asked me if the car "still had the GT40 seats in it?" They didn't when I  bought it and I've never seen anything that would resemble that kind of seat in a "Mustang" or for that matter, any other car.

Also claimed to have had Burns install a 427 "block",

Just part of the unique history of this car.
[/quote]

That's an interesting past for the car. Would be curious to see what the GT40 seats would look like, I assume they were some kind of aftermarket part.

[shelbydoug]

It is the ONLY time I have EVER heard anyone refer to GT40 seats, in anything other then a GT40.

The original owners name is Maurice Grunfeld. He was from Brooklyn and I found his name in the telephone directory not far from here so I called. I don't recall how I knew that he was the original owner though? That info might have come from Criswell and given to the SAAC Registry.

No one can find Clark Criswell and people like Howard Parde, who owned this car briefly, never heard of him except for the Registry mention.

I mentioned that GT40's really didn't have seats like you would find in a Mustang and were more part of a build in to those cars. He insisted they were GT40 seats and that Mel Burns Ford installed them.

He insisted about the 427 "block" as well.

[Richstang]

I recall seeing these swivel seats in the '66-'67 Mustang Mach I show car. I guess you could say they look like GT40 seats.

[shelbydoug]

Now, I think I have seen these seats before.

[Vcode]

It isn't anything to argue over. It's just a little confusing. My 67 is 3074. A picture of it from the late '70s shows it with Magstars.

Dave says that there is no PO for it and that it came with 10 spokes.

The Marti report indicates it was a base model with the base wheel option which would be the steel wheel/hub caps.

That right there throws inaccuracy into those stats.


So it breaks down to 3 wheel options with roughly 1/3 production of each.

Now it is worth pointing out that some dealers would have tailored the car to the new purchasers tastes in order to move it out.

Besides the "required extra dealer installed options" like under coating, floor mats and 'hot wax' (and maybe a racoon tail hanging on the rear view mirror) guys like Kolb could have altered the car from what the factory did before it was delivered to it's first owner.

Kolb also spread himself around between at least two high volume dealers, Larsen and Kolb. His high pressure antics are probably the biggest reason Chevys were big in our family.


Something for the Judges to consider.

Here's 3074 sitting in Leuchner's driveway in 1976.