COBRA parellel system induction system on ebay®

[Dan Case]

This is not mine offering but complete unrestored substantially as Shelby and Ford sold them systems don't come up for sale often. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BARN-FIND-289-FORD-WEBER-48IDA-MANIFOLD-AND-CARBS/113368253245?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I asked the seller for model numbers and serial numbers. He answered with:
48IDA 1114
48IDA 1115
48IDA 1257
48IDA 1060

Time frame wise I would place the carburetors in the late 1966 to early 1967 time frame (sorry close as I can make an educated guess on) as they fall just after a range of serial numbers of units installed on new GT40s completed in late 1966. The water neck is the second version of cast aluminum COBRA lettered I believe came out in time for 1967 parts catalogs.  (This is the carburetor serial number range were SHELBY lettered intakes started showing up in my data collection.)

[prototypefan]

Are these what are referred to as "sand cast" Webers?

If not what is the difference between Italian Webers and sand cast ones?

Thx

[Dan Case]

Are these what are referred to as "sand cast" Webers?

If not what is the difference between Italian Webers and sand cast ones?

Thx

No. The IDM family of two choke (a.k.a. venturi in the USA) down draft carburetors had main bodies and tops produced by a sand casting process. The IDA family commissioned by Ford was produced in permanent die casting molds.

Since circa 1971 more than one company, including at least one in the UK and one in Spain, have made versions either without or with the approval of the company that owns the name. It is buyer beware because at least two counterfeiting companies used markings to indicate the units were both genuine and made in Italy.

[C6ZZGT]

Way to rich for me,BUT is 12 large a good price ?

[acman63]

Way to rich for me,BUT is 12 large a good price ?

12 large is a pie in the sky price.  figure to get it running properly on any engine might be $2K  to get it tuned in .  who knows what parts are in ihe carb now,  race setups dont work well on street engines

[CSX2259]

Interesting that they are "48IDA" given the float bowl casting has the rib in it, I would have expected "48IDA-1" or "48IDA-4" numbers.

[Dan Case]

Interesting that they are "48IDA" given the float bowl casting has the rib in it, I would have expected "48IDA-1" or "48IDA-4" numbers.

In my collected data table IDAs (no suffix) played out roughly during the fourth quarter of 1966. After that until late summer 1970 IDA1 and IDA4s fill the collection Moon/Ford/Shelby/HM wise. After the summer of 1970 E. Weber dropped serial numbers and marked carburetors with month and year of manufacture.

As made by the E. Weber company, except for main body casting revisions and changes in some small part manufacturing details, IDA and IDA1 models were the same except for throttle shaft levers. Which levers were supplied to Shelby American, Dean Moon, Ford Advanced Vehicles, or Holman-Moody didn't matter as all these companies replaced levers with ones of their own to suit their own requirements almost all the time or modified what E. Weber supplied.

48 IDA1 serial number 2 was installed by SAI on a new race engine in 1964 and it was still there a few years ago. Shelby American used and sold IDA and IDA1 models in systems mixed in any rato.

[SFM5S000]

Interesting that they are "48IDA" given the float bowl casting has the rib in it, I would have expected "48IDA-1" or "48IDA-4" numbers.

John, the 48IDA's in my car are (using the same format):

48IDA  983
48IDA  985
48IDA  1031
48IDA  1035

Are lower serial numbers than the set listed for sale on eBay.  They too have the "rib" (see photo)
Also referencing Dan Case's illustration (mine being the second 1960's casting series as well)
And the last photo is just for you. Look closely there pal..... slight hint: the tabs

Cheers
~Earl J

[CSX2259]

Earl,

Do yours have the long serial number pad or the short pad?

Per Dan Cases comparison with the Porsche 46IDA (diecast) application. The 46IDA (-2,-3) Series was a replacement for the 46IDM (sadcast) that was discontinued for the 4-cam four cylinder engine applications which ended in 1964. The IDA Series was a direct teplacement for the IDM Series that were made obsolete by Weber. I would suspect that the 46IDA evolution paralleled the 48IDA Series carburetors.

[SFM5S000]

Hey John,

The Webers on my car are the "48 IDA" with the short ID and serial # pads. The second 60's casting design series that followed the 48 IDM. (see pic).

~E

[Dan Case]

Earl,

Do yours have the long serial number pad or the short pad?

Per Dan Cases comparison with the Porsche 46IDA (diecast) application. The 46IDA (-2,-3) Series was a replacement for the 46IDM (sadcast) that was discontinued for the 4-cam four cylinder engine applications which ended in 1964. The IDA Series was a direct teplacement for the IDM Series that were made obsolete by Weber. I would suspect that the 46IDA evolution paralleled the 48IDA Series carburetors.

Based on my collection of factory documents and manuals printed in Italy and America I believe that the 48 IDA, 48 IDA1, 46 IDA2, and 46 IDA3 were all released to Ford/Shelby/Porsche at the same time roughly late March or early April 1964.

48 IDA and 48 IDA1 models (with 42 mm chokes) differed only by one part, two different styles of throttle lever.

46 IDA2 and 46 IDA3 models differed only by one part, two different styles of throttle lever in the manner 48 IDAs and 48 IDA1s differ.

The earliest documentation of any kind I have come across for the 48 IDA4 model is in hand written personal correspondence post marked June 28, 1966 between Dean Moon and a potential customer. 48 IDA4 models were factory fit with 37 mm chokes. Mr. Moon's information tells the potential customer that 48 IDA4 models are for engines too small for 48 IDA1 models. {February 1967, GEON, WOODBURY NEW YORK, "48IDA4 COBRA (SHELBY)", no pricing available, under price is "P.O.A.", printed in U.S.A. This is the earliest catalog mention and only printed information during the 1960s related to the "48 IDA4" that I have located to date. This is a Geon publication and not one from Weber, Ford, or Shelby.}


I have collected information on over three hundred carburetors between Serial Number 2 and Serial Number 5021.  Ford and Shelby American wise I have not come across units associated with a new car build past the early 12xx serial number range SO FAR.  One large caveat, at least three different and perhaps a fourth company have made counterfeit carburetors since at least 1971. Some of hard to detect as fakes and some are not. Just knowing a unit's model and serial number is not enough information to have an idea if the assembly is genuine or bogus.



Printed Or Hand Written Period Factory Information Found To Date

1963 ~~~~~~~~~~
September 7, 1963, "WEBER  DIS. No 20484 Misure d'ingombro carburatore tipo 48 IDA" dimensional and assembly drawings for the 48 IDA 2C design carburetor

October 2, 1963, parallel style COBRA lettered intake drawing (all carburetors face one way) Shelby American Inc. intake drawing (Remington/Moore) [It is believed that CSX2431 was the first car to get one of these new intakes in mid 1964 AFTER Ken Miles started using the car as a test and development mule. The day one pictures SA took of the car show the standard FIA approved type opposed system.]

1964 ~~~~~~~~~~
June 1, 1964, S.p.A. Edorado Weber, 46 IDA - 48 IDA models, "ENGINES WITH V CYLINDERS", "NORMAL OPERATION", printed in Italy

June 15, 1964, S.p.A. Edorado Weber, 48 IDA - 48 IDA 1, 46 IDA 2 - IDA3, "WEBER MASTERCATALOGUE – SPARE PARTS", implies that 46 mm models are for "PORSCHE 904 G.T." and that 48 mm models are for "8/C – V engines", printed in Italy

1964 onward (original company and period) Edorado Weber 48 mm IDA-2C (two choke) master rebuild kits and overhaul gasket kits only list "48 IDA – IDA1" carburetor models. The sealing tapes on master kit containers reads "92.1050.05 – Type 48 IDA-IDA 1 FORD Cobra LOTUS". (I take these terms to mean, FORD = GT40, Cobra = Cobra, LOTUS = Lotus 30 that were powered by 289 "Cobra" engines.)

[CSX2259]

Not that it matters for the Cobra applications but the 46IDA was a replacement carburetor for the Porsche factory installed 46IDM carburetor that were installed on the Porsche 4-cam Carrera engines used on, 356, 550 Spyder, RSK and 904s.