Electric power steering anyone?

[charlie D]

 Has anyone converted their power steering on a GT500 to electric and gotten rid of the pump and all that plumbing?  I did this on a Triumph TR8 recently and the manual steering bolted right into the space and same holes from the power steering. Needed to change out the tie rod ends and steering column, but it was a really simple job that cleaned up the engine bay a lot. I thought I would need to add electric power steering, but on the Triumph the manual steering is pretty easy. Doubt that would be the case on the GT500, besides its my wife's car. I understand and respect those who want to be preservationists, so don't take offence at the suggestion to make an alteration. I'll keep the old parts for the next owner.

[2112]

I think there are several long threads on this on the Vintage Mustangs Forums.

Unfortunately, I can't give you a good synopsis.

[Shawn]

I'll let you know soon, I did one on a very high end build of a 67 GTA Fastback.  I used the electric power steering with Total Control manual rack unit.  Car will be finished up next week. 

Shawn

[Cobrask8]

I did it on a FFR Cobra, used the Saturn Vue system Learned alot! While it is tech cool, it kills road feel. Alignment and boost settings are critical. I like that on the street I can go from easy to "Buick easy", and on the track take out almost all the boost.

I've got lots of info on this.

[cascade-classics]

We used one of these systems on a 1970 Mustang.  It took a fair amount of work to modify the column and the power unit is fairly large so you have to watch your clearances.   They make one for 67 but I have never installed one.

https://epasperformance.com/collections/mustang

[2112]

We used one of these systems on a 1970 Mustang.  It took a fair amount of work to modify the column and the power unit is fairly large so you have to watch your clearances.   They make one for 67 but I have never installed one.

https://epasperformance.com/collections/mustang

Wow, would a 45amp motor need a gargantuan alternator?

[shelbydoug]

We used one of these systems on a 1970 Mustang.  It took a fair amount of work to modify the column and the power unit is fairly large so you have to watch your clearances.   They make one for 67 but I have never installed one.

https://epasperformance.com/collections/mustang

Wow, would a 45amp motor need a gargantuan alternator?

You need a 100 amp alternator. I did one in a Pantera. No matter how small the motor unit can get, it's still too big. You kick it with your foot.

Unpowered it takes quite a bit of effort to steer. My concern was loosing power to the unit at speed. I took it out.

They are common place in today's new vehicles. I know as a fact that the ones that GM uses have a fairly high failure rate.

The Euro versions seem to do better although Fiat had a group suit against them for the EPS units.The motors are much smaller.



My opinion is that the vehicle should be designed for it and that attempting to adapt them to earlier vehicles is a crap shoot. Best is it is a 50/50 proposition.

They do dampen road feel quite a bit, but if you want to feel the road, stop the car, open the door and put your hand out until you feel it.



The good Pantera unit has an adjustable boost control. Some thought that would be good for track days vs. street days but it doesn't seem to matter. One setting is fine for both applications.

If your GM is equipped with one and it goes out, you can get it serviced at a GM dealer. If you did it and your 500 miles from home guess who has to fix it to drive the car home?



I would say that it is about on par with the ABS systems as far as being dependable. Personally I'd rather have a car without the ABS. Those things are always going out for one reason or another. Under warranty you just take it to the dealer. Out of waranty, they are a bad dream if not an outright nightmare to fix.

With a car like a wide body Pantera with probably a 10" wide front wheel and a 295-40-17 front tire, the steering wheel is constantly jiggling back and forth normally. The front end geometry was not designed for that. The EPS helps in that situation about 1,000% to tame the beast. It calms the steering wheel.

On a Mustang it's a mixed bag but so is rack and pinion. I'd say, don't bother. It's just an accademic exercise in futility.

[charlie D]

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like doing an EPS conversion on 67 GT500s is not well worked out. It was a thought for a future project. Putting it on the far back burner. Thanks for the information.
Charlie D

[Kent]

Hello, I have a 67 Fastback and did a pse conversion on my own because I´m in europe so parts are hard to find. I can tell you that I prefer the normal power steering from my 67 GT500. The problem with pse units is that there is no response to the track, I can shut it off completely but then you will have a problem in fast cornering because when the car oversteer you will be not fast enough in steering the wheel where you need it in milliseconds if pse is shut off. I also have wide tires in front so its hard to steer without pse. But for me the normal power steering in the GT500 is perfect, if its working 100% if you take care about it. The most common problem is the idler/ pitman arm which make the car feel nervous also a false alignment will cause problems. I would start with roller bearing arms that should make the car feel better.

and only a small thing a pse unit can make a lot of trouble for the driver, I had a 68 with a conversion and that car started to steer alone to the left very hard while going 80-90 mph I shut it off and on while I was standing and it did it again it turned the steeringwheel alone to the left. Believe me I wouldnt be sitting here if I wouldn´t drive old cars with 2 hands on the steeringwheel. Just my opinion try to refine the steering from the gt500 there is a lot of things you can do and it will be fine.

[shelbydoug]

The Pantera systems that are available both have a sensitivity adjustment knob. The thought is that it is possible that the driver might want to turn down the boost on the track.

The few cars that I know are using it are saying it isn't necessary.

The difference now between a GT500 and a Pantera isn't going to be the power of the ps unit itself, it is going to be for the different application.

The main factor is going to be the difference in the weight distribution on the car. The GT500 is going to be 60% front, 40% rear while the Pantera is exactly the opposite, 40/60.

You'd have to be a 50 pound weakling to need eps in a Pantera unless you had Group 4 wheels and tires on the car.

The factory power steering on a GT500 is perfectly adequate as delivered new and 100% better if you switch the fluid to Lucas stop leak.

[Cobrask8]

If you use the VUE system with the adjustment controller from Portugal, it includes directions if the unit tries to turn left. Adjustments on the circuit board of the EPS.

I did ALOT of experimenting with front end alignment settings. While I can do this on my FFR, as it has a race front suspension that can accommodate a wide range, most production cars cannot alter the alignment as far.

I am currently running:
Toe: dead straight, maybe 1/32 toe in
Caster - 3.50
Camber - 1.75

Mine is mostly a track car, so settings based on a high-speed track with a car that is normally twitchy (Cobra w/96" wheelbase and light weight)

Your heavier street cars with longer wheelbases can run more of a normal alignment, but If you can, I would still play with the settings.

[Shawn]

Drove my 67 Fastback with Total Controls manual rack and electric power for the first time.  I can say it has a very modern feel and comparable to my new 2017 GT350 Shelby.  I would recommend this setup

[Kent]

did you also installed a bump steer kit?

[Shawn]

No bump steer kit added

[Kent]

that should make the steering much better, on my setup it was a 1+