original engine v/s non original?

[pmustang]

I'll throw this one out there

Non orignal engine but original to the model

I.E. Vin stamped block but from another GT350

[Bigfoot]

Often heard but oh so rarely seen. Unless someone ventured far to the great north east wilderness or the occasional race track sightings.

Wurd!

[Bigfoot]

Pete, I agree that instead of "deduction" for non-original engine,there should be a "premium" /percentage added for original engine,as well as trans, rear axle. I believe that a high percentage of restored cars do NOT have factory/day one drivetrain and the cars being sold recently reflect that in prices. Originality has driven values in collector cars for many years. Just my opinion,but replacing ORIGINAL interior that is in good/excellent condition with a new,reproduction interior detracts from the originality. The more non-original/day one parts a car has the more it becomes a replica/clone of an original.....There is only ONE engine that is CORRECT for an accurate/perfect restoration. I believe it would be accurate to ADD a percentage to your value chart of '68 Shelbys,for ORIGINAL drivetrain. Possibly 10% for engine? Just my personal opinions,of course.....

Thats a great amount of "stuff" stated there.

In reverse,...the statement about non-original parts making it/becoming a clone is completely false even if we say "on a relative basis."   But I'll give you the nod that I agree with your thinking despite the terminology.

Next

Wether we say "deduction" for NOM or other parts or "premium" for much more original cars is really the same. I'm not disagreeing with you there,...just clarification so we don't confuse the masses.

My 2c
Biggy

[Bob Gaines]

I've never seen a 65 or 66 GT 350 with it's original engine not stamped.

My experience with 67's is quite different with the 289s.

I've seen 67s with excellent integrity without a VIN on their block.
However, it has a perfectly dated 289HP in the vehicle.
And it's with dozens of other GT 350's without a VIN that was built the same day/week.

In one case a Massachusetts owner showed me his GT 350
Original owner with low miles.
He stated the engine has never been out of the car.
There's no VIN..
I can't question his honesty and or have him prove a negative.

Bret

Bret , you have often voiced your observations before on the 67 no vin stamped issue. I am aware of Dave Mathews views on the subject. The registrar mainly depends on owner input on VIN stamped on block info for the registry . With that said some owners have their own agendas to skew the details. This makes all out of the ordinary claims made by owners suspect by default. Not to say some 67 blocks maybe got missed being VIN stamped but believe it is still a rare occurrence compared to the ones that legitimately did. The fact that 65,66,68 69 and 70 GT350's blocks typically got VIN stamped raises eyebrows on any no vin stamped 67 GT350 block regardless. As I said before I would hate to have to argue that point given the typical stamping of all the other year GT350's . Many enthusiasts /buyers will think that you are just making excuses. Just my point of view , I know others have a different one.

[mjv458]

I use "original engine, born to car" as a requirement for any car that I purchase.

[Harris Speedster]

I am sorry that I don't have the serial number of this car, but it was one of the 1967 Silver/gray gt 350's.

It did not have a serial numbered block,
I would say that it was the original" born with" engine, as it was a very original car, right down to the paint.

I did think hard about keeping it, as well as they bronze gt 350 I once owned, but the black 350 won out.
Respectfully submitted,
John

[Dizzy]

As I began my Ford dealer tech career in late '60's I did a LOT of side work on local peoples Fords to fund my racing. Three brothers that worked construction had a lot of money to spend but not very good at mechanical stuff. They bought a new '67 GT 500. Fast forward through the '70's and after a warranty short block replacement,(which only required crank kit and a couple pistons and rods to become my next engine when Ford did not call back the parts)"upgrade" to tunnel port I ended up with factory intake/carbs on my drag car. Enter the "custom" era and Recaro seats and interior I ended up with complete interior. They wanted a different gear and I had a complete 4.11 I installed. Later,it became a "beater" and suffered much neglect,but remained in the family. As the body got customized with flares and metalflake paint the front clip from '68 Mustang was installed with pro stock hood scoop.More parts ended up in my Dads garage... across the alley from their family. While moving my Dad out, I ran into the family that had the Shelby and while loading some of the Shelby parts we all laughed that I had more of that Shelby than they did.......very true,except body shell and title. End of story except the question about that car being restored..... No matter how "perfect" that car appears,it can never be an ORIGINAL Shelby,can it? Is it a "clone" ? No,better than that. Tribute? Ghost? Re-creation may be more accurate. The new movie "Replicas" was surely created by classic car enthusiasts      Sure wish I had taken pictures back then,but I was more interested in my car than theirs at the time. No,I don't have any of the Shelby parts left. All got sold at swap meets in the '80's. Sorry for long post....

[SpartanSmoke]

I don't believe there is a correct answer to the orginal post.  Investment buyers will either pass on the car or discount it more than an enthusiast.

From my point of view I look at the replacement engine, assuming it has the same components and date correctness, as I would a repaint in the same color.  Slight discount but not a deal killer.

Mike

[1967 eight barrel]

No vins on a 1967 500 block. So if the date code and casting number match no one is really going to know if it is the original or not. There seems to be plenty of warranty replacement 428s noted as well.  -Keith

[shelbyhertz66]

Hi All,
  As the original poster, many thanks to the folks who took their time to share their vast
experience on this topic . I am sure there are some who have bought and sold many Shelbys and know
what different buyers want and how different things affect prices.  We have bought and will most likley sell
our shelbys at some point and can benifit from the opinion's given here.
My takeaways by importance:

       1) Solid original body with all or most original sheetmetal.
       2) Born with engine. 10-20% premium added or deducted, amount determined by price of car.
       3) Remaining original Shelby specific items i.e. rear ends, intakes , carbs etc. the more the better.
       4) investors and pure enthusiasts can want or tolerate different things.
     Thanks all.
                      Dave
.

[Chris Thauberger]

Hi All,
  As the original poster, many thanks to the folks who took their time to share their vast
experience on this topic . I am sure there are some who have bought and sold many Shelbys and know
what different buyers want and how different things affect prices.  We have bought and will most likley sell
our shelbys at some point and can benifit from the opinion's given here.
My takeaways by importance:

       1) Solid original body with all or most original sheetmetal.
       2) Born with engine. 10-20% premium added or deducted, amount determined by price of car.
       3) Remaining original Shelby specific items i.e. rear ends, intakes , carbs etc. the more the better.
       4) investors and pure enthusiasts can want or tolerate different things.
     Thanks all.
                      Dave
.

Great question and great summary Dave.

Chris