Engine Tag

[J_Speegle]

My understanding was that the sub station at the top of the mezzanine where the engines and trans were put together received a print out of every car in order according to its second (trim line) rotation number. The code on the build sheet indicated a code and instructions for that particular rotation number and the worker put those two together, wrote the rotation number on the completed the assembly then it was rolled to the end of the mezzanine where it was lower the the landing below. The worker in charge down below would identify  the rotation number on the assembly with the rotation number on the car and the engine was lifted and installed by the workers at that station. Other plants handled things a bit differently but best not to get off subject

Never talked to one of the workers typically assigned to the task of putting the engine and trans combinations together but if they did look at the buildsheet they may have just looked at the engine code and quickly identified some of the engines after a while by, visual clues such as the chrome valve covers or different valve covers once the production year had been going for a short time. At the same time another worker on a different shift may have memorized the code and it's related engine ID or trans ID code from the paper tag and the ink stamp on the trans much like a check out person at a grocery store recalls what code a fuji apple or an ear of corn is and enters it into the cash register without looking it up.  In the case of a Shelby the additional notations at the bottom of the buildsheet would have been quicker than looking for a box with a code. Especially after only a few I would expect the worker figured out a short cut to get the job done  quicker.


Each car would have had two or three buildsheets attached  to the body during the trim line section depending on what had been installed already but a handwritten rotation number was typically applied to the body at the front and rear of the body making identification quicker and easier from a greater distance than reading the print on a piece of paper.


I hope this helps and I understood your request.

[davez]

When did the VIN get stamped into the  block? At the individual assembly plant  San Jose Dearborn etc or where the engine was assembled?  I've seen k motors from different plants have different styles of VIN stamps. Some being in a straight line others looking as if each digit was stamped individually.  Some could be restamps however I believe what I was looking at was original blocks. There seems to be an inconsistency compared to the Vin stamps in the bodies being the same from plant to plant.

[gt350hr]

   At the assembly plant.  Some of the early '65 GT350s had their original engines built with "soft" cams that failed on the drive from SAI to Riverside Raceway for the Press Review. All of those engines were replaced with new engines air freighted to SAI. Those engines were not serialized and SAI didn't add them either. This can cause some distress when looking at an early car with w non vin stamped engine that is the actual ''AS SOLD" engine but NOT the "assembly line engine. Craig Conley inspected one car with this "situation". Bruce Junor  (SAI retired , obviously) was the Production Manager at that time and related the story during a local COCOA club meeting some 10+ years ago.
    Randy

[Bob Gaines]

When did the VIN get stamped into the  block? At the individual assembly plant  San Jose Dearborn etc or where the engine was assembled?  I've seen k motors from different plants have different styles of VIN stamps. Some being in a straight line others looking as if each digit was stamped individually.  Some could be restamps however I believe what I was looking at was original blocks. There seems to be an inconsistency compared to the Vin stamps in the bodies being the same from plant to plant.

It is the current consensus that the engines were vin stamped at individual assembly plant in the case of 66 GT350 San Jose . There may have been a fixture tool that automatically stamped the collective VIN numbers in the metal but if there was it may not have always been used. I have seen many in a untouched setting vin stamping's where the individual numbers were not in the straight line and of varying depth in the casting which leads me to believe at least some were hand stamped.

[SFM6S087]

My understanding was that the sub station at the top of the mezzanine where the engines and trans were put together received a print out of every car in order according to its second (trim line) rotation number. The code on the build sheet indicated a code and instructions for that particular rotation number and the worker put those two together, wrote the rotation number on the completed the assembly then it was rolled to the end of the mezzanine where it was lower the the landing below. The worker in charge down below would identify  the rotation number on the assembly with the rotation number on the car and the engine was lifted and installed by the workers at that station. Other plants handled things a bit differently but best not to get off subject

Never talked to one of the workers typically assigned to the task of putting the engine and trans combinations together but if they did look at the buildsheet they may have just looked at the engine code and quickly identified some of the engines after a while by, visual clues such as the chrome valve covers or different valve covers once the production year had been going for a short time. At the same time another worker on a different shift may have memorized the code and it's related engine ID or trans ID code from the paper tag and the ink stamp on the trans much like a check out person at a grocery store recalls what code a fuji apple or an ear of corn is and enters it into the cash register without looking it up.  In the case of a Shelby the additional notations at the bottom of the buildsheet would have been quicker than looking for a box with a code. Especially after only a few I would expect the worker figured out a short cut to get the job done  quicker.


Each car would have had two or three buildsheets attached  to the body during the trim line section depending on what had been installed already but a handwritten rotation number was typically applied to the body at the front and rear of the body making identification quicker and easier from a greater distance than reading the print on a piece of paper.


I hope this helps and I understood your request.

Jeff, that is fantastic information. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed account! Is there a book I could buy that covers any of this? I'm intrigued by info like this. Maybe I should spend more time over at the ConcoursMustang forum.

Steve

[SFM6S087]

When did the VIN get stamped into the  block? At the individual assembly plant  San Jose Dearborn etc or where the engine was assembled?  I've seen k motors from different plants have different styles of VIN stamps. Some being in a straight line others looking as if each digit was stamped individually.  Some could be restamps however I believe what I was looking at was original blocks. There seems to be an inconsistency compared to the Vin stamps in the bodies being the same from plant to plant.

It is the current consensus that the engines were vin stamped at individual assembly plant in the case of 66 GT350 San Jose . There may have been a fixture tool that automatically stamped the collective VIN numbers in the metal but if there was it may not have always been used. I have seen many in a untouched setting vin stamping's where the individual numbers were not in the straight line and of varying depth in the casting which leads me to believe at least some were hand stamped.

Bob, you write that the consensus is the 1966 cars got their engines VIN stamped at San Jose. What about the 1965 cars?

Thanks,
Steve

[6R07mi]

My 20+ yrs experience ( 1977 ~ 1999 ) as a Ford Parts mgr was mostly involved with DSO built heavy trucks.
My experience was that the DSO build process had not changed much from the mid 1960's,
they still used a similar DSO form as as used for SAI.

As noted the rear axle, the calipers, brake proportioning valve, etc were DSO parts.
IMHO the engine was a RPO ( regular production option ) assembly, pulled off to a re-work station where the intake & carb were installed.
This "rework" would not effect the regular engine production line, but still used the quality & material controls of the plant.
Since SAI would untimely be the Manufacturer of record, documenting the content of the car was on SAI, FoMoCo was in this case a "sub-supplier".

Still the central question of how the re-worked engines were then identified from Cleveland, into San Jose, and into "special build" cars destined for SAI is unknown.
Unless documentation surfaces confirming the Cleveland engine "code" 554J was altered/changed, I believe they were "DSO" marked like a color X or a special tag
that differentiated the assembly from RPO engines. 

just sharing my observations that may add understanding,.... or not 

regards,
jim p

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, that is fantastic information. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed account! Is there a book I could buy that covers any of this? I'm intrigued by info like this. Maybe I should spend more time over at the ConcoursMustang forum.

No book that covers San Jose production. There are a number of out of print publications by authors and Ford that cover parts of the planning, production and other details as well as a number of films from the period that cover basis Ford production during the 60's and early 70's


This info comes from obtaining & viewing pictures, films, talking to people like workers, managers, one of the people responsible for laying out the San Jose plant lines, inspectors, also workers and managers of other Ford plants over a number of decades. Many stayed in the area after the plant was closed (have friends that helped clean up and got access the plant after the closure) and we continue to meet workers every so often as they visit the shops and shows locally. 

Bob, you write that the consensus is the 1966 cars got their engines VIN stamped at San Jose. What about the 1965 cars?

I've been told that the engine and trans combinations received the VIN stamping up on that mezzanine I was describing.

For this period of time (65 & 66) I don't believe a gang stamp (holder that had all the numbers and letters together for a single stamping) was used like may be used in other years for this purpose though other car makes apparently did.

[gt350hr]

     I agree with Jeff on the lack of a gang stamp being used. For example I have seen the "K" made from three strikes of the "I" stamp and the whole stamp being "wavy " and irregularly spaced. I have also seen others done very neatly. Yes long ago , not recent "additions" .
    Randy

[Bob Gaines]

When did the VIN get stamped into the  block? At the individual assembly plant  San Jose Dearborn etc or where the engine was assembled?  I've seen k motors from different plants have different styles of VIN stamps. Some being in a straight line others looking as if each digit was stamped individually.  Some could be restamps however I believe what I was looking at was original blocks. There seems to be an inconsistency compared to the Vin stamps in the bodies being the same from plant to plant.

It is the current consensus that the engines were vin stamped at individual assembly plant in the case of 66 GT350 San Jose . There may have been a fixture tool that automatically stamped the collective VIN numbers in the metal but if there was it may not have always been used. I have seen many in a untouched setting vin stamping's where the individual numbers were not in the straight line and of varying depth in the casting which leads me to believe at least some were hand stamped.

Bob, you write that the consensus is the 1966 cars got their engines VIN stamped at San Jose. What about the 1965 cars?

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,I said 66 because of the specific context of the thread category we are in (1966 ShelbyGT350/GT350H) . I don't have any reason to believe 65 was any different.

[SFM6S087]

Jeff, you need to write a book. The info that you have is priceless and unavailable from any other source I know. Not to be macabre, but unless you do something that info will die with you. Plus you could make a few dollars to compensate you for the hundreds (possibly thousands) of hours of research you must have in this.

And, Bob, that goes for you too. Maybe the two of you could collaborate and then share in the proceeds.

Just a suggestion. Thanks for sharing freely here on the forum.

Steve

[J_Speegle]

Think we are doing something with the information

Books have been discussed many times but we realize that they are dated and so information contained within is old the day they are sent to the printers as they don't keep up with the growing knowledge base that expands daily, weekly or monthly.  This is why I and many others, I believe, take the time to share, through articles, on the forums or in Charles T and my case, start a forum to focus on this sort of details - hoping others will take what is shared and expand from there, hopefully, until there is no longer any interest in the subjects.

Don't believe I have enough time to write down and share everything but contingency plans are in place. Saw what happened with great people I grew up knowing with so much knowledge (Lorin Sorensen was a close family friend who I worked for on the side in his very early years of publishing) who passed away leaving their writings and legacy. Lorin may have been the person who initially get me interested in Ford car assembly practices.

Time waits for no man