Question 1966 GT-350 Side Scoop rivets

[J_Speegle]

Jeff- I'm not sure how-to re-post the pictures but in this original thread ( on page 1) dated 2\28\ 2019 listed pictures of earlier and later examples of 1966 GT350's side scoops. It was a red scoop and white scoop displaying my same plastic rivet. Maybe it was not your pictures, but someone in this original thread posted those 2 pictures in 2019.

Recall the picture it is in Reply #10.  The red car's "rivets" do look similar let me look up the specific car and look for indications of its past and condition at the time the picture was taken.

Of course another car with the same part or fix would not automatically prove that it was a Shelby done thing. Will take some time to look through, always adding additional pictures as they become available, and see what we can see

[J_Speegle]

In an effort to "report back" I looked though my collection of pictures and though I do not have pictures of every car there does appear to be a group with similar attaching hardware as shown as found on 6S2227 in this thread. The attaching wholes were much larger to fit the "plastic" anchors.

Don't know if Shelby used this method for a somewhat short period and through the end of the year. Currently I found the cars were numbered from approx 6S208x and 6S2227 the latest at this point for a total of 8 examples. Of course not all pictures were perfect but the visible end of the hardware is very different in the way it looks between the narrow expanded end of the rivet and the much wider insert style.

Hope this helps and I hope we collect more examples to expand our understanding

[J_Speegle]

Since we don't split threads on this site... following along with the plastic water sheet I wanted to report that I pulled the interior rear seat side panels for the first time since 6S1203 was new and there were no shields. Don't know if they were there from San Jose but they might have been removed at Shelby since they would have been in the way of installing the side scoops and ducts. Maybe 6S2227 just got skipped for some reason. Not allot of pictures of cars with the interior panels removed except in full restorations where everything is removed, clean and repainted 

[6s1640]

Since we don't split threads on this site... following along with the plastic water sheet I wanted to report that I pulled the interior rear seat side panels for the first time since 6S1203 was new and there were no shields. Don't know if they were there from San Jose but they might have been removed at Shelby since they would have been in the way of installing the side scoops and ducts. Maybe 6S2227 just got skipped for some reason. Not allot of pictures of cars with the interior panels removed except in full restorations where everything is removed, clean and repainted

Hi Jeff,

I agree with you, that if 6S1203 had a plastic water shield, that it is likely SAI removed during the duct pieces installation from inside the car.  It would have been in the way.  If the 6S1203 had a vent drip tray drain tube, it was also likely removed at SAI because it too was also in the way or no longer needed with the sealed quarter window or both.  For the cars after 6S2022 or 6S2070 to 6S2374, it appear most cars had the ducting pieces installed from the outside the car.  It is then likely the water shield was not disturbed and thus was left in place.  I believe that is why 6s2227 still has the shield, along with not being disturbed for 55+ years.  Below summarizes the perfect storm for the water shield images from 6S2227.

1) Water shield installed at San Jose plant
2) Ducting pieces installed from outside the car
3) Not disturbed for 55+ years

I found what appears to be the "Shield - Quarter Trim Water" in the MPC under group 31090-1 with shield part numbers C5ZZ-6331090-A and C5ZZ-6331091-A.  It is interesting that Ford spared this service part for 65-68 Fastbacks.  I am assuimng this does mean these cars were all built with the shield, but could be spared to a car in service with leaking issues.  Does that sound right?  Ford stopped sparing the part July 1973 according to the MPC notes.

I have also read that the water shield was dropped at the end of the 1966 production in favor of the drain tube.  All 67-68 Mustang fastback went back to the more reliable drain tube.

Cory

[J_Speegle]

if 6S1203 had a plastic water shield, that it is likely SAI removed during the duct pieces installation from inside the car.  It would have been in the way.  If the 6S1203 had a vent drip tray drain tube, it was also likely removed at SAI because it too was also in the way or no longer needed with the sealed quarter window or both. 

Will have to see by taking another look

For the cars after 6S2022 or 6S2070 to 6S2374, it appear most cars had the ducting pieces installed from the outside the car.  It is then likely the water shield was not disturbed and thus was left in place.  I believe that is why 6s2227 still has the shield, along with not being disturbed for 55+ years. ................

Are we certain that 6S2227 is untouched?  Is the current owner the original one?

Workers would still need to access the area to fully install the complete ducting. Guess we're going to need more evidence and examples before we can believe IMHO that this is not a case of a simply mistake or just one car where the removal got skipped. Just trying to look at this objectively

[J_Speegle]

I agree with you, that if 6S1203 had a plastic water shield, that it is likely SAI removed during the duct pieces installation from inside the car.  It would have been in the way.  If the 6S1203 had a vent drip tray drain tube, it was also likely removed at SAI because it too was also in the way or no longer needed with the sealed quarter window or both.............

Reporting back. As expected the style of interior rain gutter (for lack of a better term) lacks the ability to use a drain hose like used in 65



Of course the addition of the quarter windows eliminated the possibility of water getting into this area. At this point my opinion is that at least for cars in this period/order group San Jose eliminated the water shield as they did some other things according to the specification forms. Some of these brackets that had not been installed returned or matched Mustangs closer to the end of production

[6s1640]

Hi Jeff,

I agree with you again.  This has to stop.  LOL.  Yes, when there is no fitting on the vent drip tray (rain gutter)  no drain tube can be attached.   A 1966 Mustang fastback with the absent fitting for drain hose, I believe would of had the water shields C5ZZ-6331090-A and C5ZZ-6331091-A.  Without first hand knowledge at the SAI plant, we can only guess the sequences of events.  But my guess is the San Jose plant, for the early 1966 GT350's destine to LAX, the drain tube was on the delete list of parts.  It no longer had any purpose with the sealed quarter window.  When San Jose changed over to the water shield, they failed to update the delete list, no one told SAI of the change, and cars were delivered to LAX with water shield.  Cars with ducting pieces installed inside the car, the shield was ripped out because it was in the way.  This could be verified with left over glue residue still on the car, for a non restored car with absent fittings.   The absent fitting is critical for this check.   For the cars between 2022 to 2070 to 2374 with ducting installed outside the car, it is likely the water shield was not disturbed and left in place, like 6S2227.

Cory

[6s1640]

There is a time period at the San Jose plant when the vent tray drain fitting was still in place with no hose and the water shield was installed.  These are transitional cars.  The changes to the drip tray and water shield were not timed well.  It is likely the plant continue to use the vent tray detail with fitting until they were all used up.  There was no need to throw away.  It was only late in the production the vent drip tray was fabricated with no drain fitting, like the image posted above.  The total cost savings was not realized until the end of production.

Cory

[Bob Gaines]

It seems counter intuitive that Ford would use this primitive contraption that appears less efficient compared to what it replaced. It would require more labor to install compared to what it replaced too. It would be interesting to know the reason for the change.

[J_Speegle]

There is a time period at the San Jose plant when the vent tray drain fitting was still in place with no hose and the water shield was installed.  These are transitional cars.  The changes to the drip tray and water shield were not timed well.  It is likely the plant continue to use the vent tray detail with fitting until they were all used up.  There was no need to throw away.  It was only late in the production the vent drip tray was fabricated with no drain fitting, like the image posted above.  The total cost savings was not realized until the end of production.

Cory

Any context of when that Mustang was built? VIN or projected build date?

Guess the change might have just been cost savings. But just a guess based on the reason for so much of the other changes.

[6s1640]

Hi Jeff,

Sounds like a survey.  I can start off.  The k-code I am working on is a February 8, 1966 build, VIN 6R09K1635XX.  It does not have the drain tube fitting and looks like the image you posted.  On the prior image above I posted,  I do not know the VIN or build date, but it has to be before my car with the drain tube fitting.  It might be better to start a new thread.

Cory

[J_Speegle]

Just as a follow-up from another discussion on the subject elsewhere the presence of the water shield has been found on an unrestored example in the late 6S4xx's so the application appears to not be related to late cars. Possibly related to the group order or just a rare mistake made by a worker or two during the production year




Have also found two products so far used to attach the shields to the rain gutters

[6s1640]

Hi Jeff,

Here is another example of a late GT350, 6S2339 with ducting pieces installed from the outside.  This photograph was take through the latch hole in the quarter panel.  (Thank you Brian.)

You can see the shield is wrapped over the duct tubing and still tucked into the side area.

On your image above, does it appear the shield was also glued along the forward more vertical edge?   I can see what looks like adhesive residue.   I wonder if removing the shield was up to the mechanic making the ducting installation.  Maybe not a mistake, but a personal choice to leave in place or remove.  Thank you for posting, more data.

Take care

Cory

[J_Speegle]

Hi Jeff,

Here is another example of a late GT350, 6S2339 with ducting pieces installed from the outside.  This photograph was take through the latch hole in the quarter panel.  (Thank you Brian.)

You can see the shield is wrapped over the duct tubing and still tucked into the side area.

On your image above, does it appear the shield was also glued along the forward more vertical edge?   I can see what looks like adhesive residue.

Yes we've collected pictures where it appears that spray contact adhesive was sprayed on the inner B pillar support. Of course over years its given up.  Similar, likely brushed adhesive, was applied to the inner lip of the rain gutter to attach the shield to it. In other examples its been report that on other cars were found with a light grey dum-dum along that edge. The rain gutter attachment really only need to work until the interior trim was installed since the three screw that were inserted into the rain gutter would hold it somewhat in place for the long hall

I wonder if removing the shield was up to the mechanic making the ducting installation.  Maybe not a mistake, but a personal choice to leave in place or remove.  Thank you for posting, more data.

Maybe or maybe , on the ones that detached or fell down once the trim and screws were removed the worker (s) didn't make the effort to reinstall and they just got tossed

[kram350]

Question? When the ducting flange pieces are attached from the outside, isn't it be possible to install the hose without removing the interior panel?

Drill the 3"+/- flange holes in the quarter and outer wheel well. Reach thru and push the plastic shield out of the way and shove the hose with flanged attached thru the quarter panel. Reach thru the outer wheel well and grab the hose and pull thru, then attach the hose with rivets, then rivet the flange to the outer wheel well.

Then a push rivet and glued on scoop would make sense. Am I missing something here?