Paradise Magstar Balancing Recommendations

[DGSOH]

What are folks doing with their Paradise Magstars as far as balancing i.e. lug or center-centric, hammer or stick-on weights? I would guess hammer-on weights would be more appropriate for the period?

Thanks -

DGSOH

[Kent]

hammer on weights and balancing over the lugs with a adapter in my opinion the best way to do it

[rcgt350]

I had mine done with the old school system, can't remember what that's called and glue on weights on inside, not Concours correct, but I didn't want the Chrome rim marked up with outer wheel weights either. No balance problems going down the road.

[2112]

and balancing over the lugs with a adapter

Not sure what this means?

[JD]

the wheel/tire assembly can be balanced by attaching the assembly to the balancer at either the center opening of the wheel (Hub Centric) or the lug holes (Lug Centric).    Not all shops (very few) have an adaptor to do the Lug Centric method which is recommended by either the auto manufacturer or the wheel maker.

[2112]

Ah, of course.   

[tonys_shelby]

I just today dropped off my wheels off to get the new repro speedway 350's installed and yes had a hard time finding a place to do lug centric balancing but for your info older Ford Dealers (currently named Paoil Ford )  like the one I used seem to be the ticket. I also didn't want to mar the chrome and used stick on weights.

[pbf777]

     The Ford 8 & 9 inch axles (and others) present in its' original engineering intent, a register at the flange for the purpose of locating or 'registering' the drum or disc and the original factory mounted steel wheels 'on-center' and thus are considered 'hub-centric' by design; and I feel should be balanced as such.

     The problem arises, as many aftermarket wheels ignore this register to simplify engineering efforts (and costs) by the wheel maker for a more universal wheel center, with only concerns for bolt pattern, titling them as 'lug-centric' installations, and with "Uni-Lug" systems even this eliminates specific applications further.

     I have not found these so called 'lug-centric' wheels to be very dependable or repeatable on their locating themselves 'on-center' when installed, leading to an every variable some of vibrations emanating. We have therefore in an effort to correct this deficiency, found ourselves fabricating a spacer-register which is generally heat-shrunk on to the original factory axle register and engages the wheel center (generally one will find it to present a machined surface which was apparently utilized by the manufacturer in the production process, but not always) to provide correct and more repeatable hub-centric location, and generally better results.   

     I'm am unknowing of who one would attribute as the inventor of "Lug-Centric" or "Lug-Piloted" wheel installation, but the most common would seem to be Budd Wheel, as was (and still is on older vehicles) a very popular option to the Dayton spoke units on trucks from the 1930's to 1980's; but keep in mind with the use of ten lugs on a larger bolt circle, mounting a wheel & tire of greater circumference, and attached to a commercial vehicle and perhaps less than an ideal ride was more acceptable, but note more recently have relinquished to 'hub-piloted' engineering since, for the better engineering.   

     Scott. 

     

     

[2112]

     The Ford 8 & 9 inch axles (and others) present in its' original engineering intent, a register at the flange for the purpose of locating or 'registering' the drum or disc and the original factory mounted steel wheels 'on-center' and thus are considered 'hub-centric' by design; and I feel should be balanced as such.

     The problem arises, as many aftermarket wheels ignore this register to simplify engineering efforts (and costs) by the wheel maker for a more universal wheel center, with only concerns for bolt pattern, titling them as 'lug-centric' installations, and with "Uni-Lug" systems even this eliminates specific applications further.

     I have not found these so called 'lug-centric' wheels to be very dependable or repeatable on their locating themselves 'on-center' when installed, leading to an every variable some of vibrations emanating. We have therefore in an effort to correct this deficiency, found ourselves fabricating a spacer-register which is generally heat-shrunk on to the original factory axle register and engages the wheel center (generally one will find it to present a machined surface which was apparently utilized by the manufacturer in the production process, but not always) to provide correct and more repeatable hub-centric location, and generally better results.   

     I'm am unknowing of who one would attribute as the inventor of "Lug-Centric" or "Lug-Piloted" wheel installation, but the most common would seem to be Budd Wheel, as was (and still is on older vehicles) a very popular option to the Dayton spoke units on trucks from the 1930's to 1980's; but keep in mind with the use of ten lugs on a larger bolt circle, mounting a wheel & tire of greater circumference, and attached to a commercial vehicle and perhaps less than an ideal ride was more acceptable, but note more recently have relinquished to 'hub-piloted' engineering since, for the better engineering.   

     Scott. 

https://us.hubcentric-rings.com/why_hub_centric_rings/?src=intpopup

[Bob Gaines]

I just today dropped off my wheels off to get the new repro speedway 350's installed and yes had a hard time finding a place to do lug centric balancing but for your info older Ford Dealers (currently named Paoil Ford )  like the one I used seem to be the ticket. I also didn't want to mar the chrome and used stick on weights.

Hopefully if you used stick on weights you were able to do them on the back side only.

[DGSOH]

So if the wheel centers fit snug on the "registers" of the flanges and hubs, hub-centric balancing should be ok I'm guessing. The shop can do lug-centric but unfortunately their adapter's studs aren't long enough for the Magstars. I'll check the register fit ahead of time.

As far as choice of weights I'm still conflicted. On the one hand I like the idea of no buggered up chrome and a clean appearance. On the other I've not had particularly good luck with the stick-ons over the years.

[pbf777]

     We would prefer to use metal vs. plastic(?) for the registers for the greater load impact capability. Keep in mind that another function of this register locating the wheel is to support the wheel, to aid in resisting forces attempting to move the wheel perpendicular to the face of the axle flange and the possibility of shearing the wheel studs, as the fasteners' major strength is not in this plane nor was this load or movement intended to be experienced in the original engineering.   

     Scott.

[JD]

So if the wheel centers fit snug on the "registers" of the flanges and hubs, hub-centric balancing should be ok I'm guessing. The shop can do lug-centric but unfortunately their adapter's studs aren't long enough for the Magstars. I'll check the register fit ahead of time.

As far as choice of weights I'm still conflicted. On the one hand I like the idea of no buggered up chrome and a clean appearance. On the other I've not had particularly good luck with the stick-ons over the years.

The new tape weights stick pretty good, I always put some duct tape over the weights for added stick.

[Bob Gaines]

So if the wheel centers fit snug on the "registers" of the flanges and hubs, hub-centric balancing should be ok I'm guessing. The shop can do lug-centric but unfortunately their adapter's studs aren't long enough for the Magstars. I'll check the register fit ahead of time.

As far as choice of weights I'm still conflicted. On the one hand I like the idea of no buggered up chrome and a clean appearance. On the other I've not had particularly good luck with the stick-ons over the years.

The new tape weights stick pretty good, I always put some duct tape over the weights for added stick.

+1. Always done on track cars. With that agreement unfortunately renders the stick on weights arguably even uglier then they are prior to the tape use IMO. 

[pbf777]

     One of the problems with the use of "stick-on' weights only on the rear of the wheel, is that one should be attempting to balance the tire & wheel set in both a "force" and "couple" imbalance modes, which is not always ideally possible if ones' correction is restrained to only a singular plane (backside weight installation only); and if one is attempting to cancel an imbalance, particularly a couple value out of plane, then if accomplished, it would generally require excessive material to be added versus otherwise. The wider the wheel, the bigger the problem, as length in the planes and distance between the rotational imbalances increases, the couple imbalance variables become greater.

     So, therefore if you have an 1940's M.G. TC (as I do), with a 19" diameter spoke (wire) wheel and a tire with less than 4 inches of tread width, one can establish through a static or really modernize with the use of a bubble balancer and just hang the corrective weights on the spokes (lead fishing sinkers) in the center on the wheel and be O.K. (remember the cars aren't that fast anyway).  But as the tires get wider (and the cars faster), then this is where the terms such as 'dynamic' balancing began appearing. c   


     Scott.