Color Change on Judged concours

[acman63]

We had an issue awhile back with a car that was being judged had been a color change .  After the owner had been told that the color change would be a severe deduction the owner made a big stink  and emailed all the Board of directors saying that we were changing the rules (which we didnt) It was clear in the judging sheets that the deduction was 30 points.   It  seems somewhere in the archives of ancient SAAC judging he found something that said any Shelby American color that was applicable for that year would be acceptable .  Im not sure how old that was but I couldnt find it going back ten years. Ironically after all this hissy fit and agreeing to re-instate the points we later found out that the color the car was painted wasnt even a shelby color . We had 27 owners that followed the rules and 1 that made a hissy fit and got his way.  If it was my call I would have let the deductions stand.
    Thus,  this is where we are now on color changes.  We are of the concensus that the color of the car when it left the factory is very, very important . Going forward ,  A car that is Color changed entered in SAAC Premiere  (D1)  will not be allowed to be judged period!  It will be be downgraded to SAAC Concours! However in SAAC Concourse (D2)   a color change will be allowed to be judged as long as its a color that was available for that year car!  BUT  that car will not be eligible for a gold award at all and will basicly start  as a Silver and go from there. 
   
    We feel this rule is one that will help SAAC protect the integrity of the Marque and SAAC Judging

[tesgt350]

How could it be considered Concourse if it had a Color Change?

[CharlesTurner]

Where we are with concours restorations, I can't imagine anyone even thinking of restoring a car correctly with a color change.  Maybe I'm naive on the subject, but hopefully this is a non-issue going forward.

Correct and color change, just don't go together in my opinion.

[67 GT350]

What the heck kind of judges couldn't detect that the color was not offered Shelby color? Seems like a "wrong" color should have got the deduction anyway. This clown made fools out of the show judges and is laughing all the way to his trophy...lol

[Bob Gaines]

I am sorry to hear that the board caved to the pressure of some whiner because it sets a precedent for more whiners to get their way in the future. I suppose a effort for more education on what is expected would be in order. As if we haven't tried that before in the past. Every car entered is expected to be of such quality that it would at least have a chance to qualify for one of the awards eligible. With that said maybe a one on one discussion with the head/lead judge of the particular class with entrants so that the entrant is aware of what is expected of them and their car if entered. SAAC forum members are typically aware of requirements or at least will typically ask questions related to the venue. It is those that don't keep up on current expectations that are at issue.  I am glad to see the mandatory multi picture requirement being implemented . I believe the cars being restored and built up to the day before the concours event should not be given a picture pass . There have been cars in the past almost every year that were entered that had no business being judged . I don't know of any concours judge in the SAAC ,MCA or Mid America Shelby community that enjoys telling a entrant that their car is not ready for concours judging regardless of if restorer or a owner .  By prequalifying the cars it saves the entrant time and money and possibly embarrassment. It saves the judge from the sensitive issue of explaining to the entrant why their car is not qualified to be judged. Compromising a enthusiast's enthusiasm on purpose is not what any of us signed up for. Keep in mind that judging is done by those volunteering their time. I for one do not want to give up my vacation time on a car that does not qualify minimum standards.

[FL SAAC]

A personal choice or preference on ones vehicle that deviates from how it originally left S.A. should disqualify it from a concours judging event or suffer severe points deductions.

How could it be considered Concourse if it had a Color Change?

[Bob Gaines]

What the heck kind of judges couldn't detect that the color was not offered Shelby color? Seems like a "wrong" color should have got the deduction anyway. This clown made fools out of the show judges and is laughing all the way to his trophy...lol

I suppose you didn't read or didn't understand the original post otherwise you would not have misspoke and blamed the problem on the judge. It was the board that reinstated the points for the wrong color. Apparently the board took the owners argument at face value and made their judgment without knowing all of the related facts .  Regardless of color change , wrong tint, non Shelby color. It still remains as wrong color for the car. The judge/judges apparently deducted legitimately and did their job as expected . 

[Chris Thauberger]

I am sorry to hear that the board caved to the pressure of some whiner because it sets a precedent for more whiners to get their way in the future. I suppose a effort for more education on what is expected would be in order. As if we haven't tried that before in the past. Every car entered is expected to be of such quality that it would at least have a chance to qualify for one of the awards eligible. With that said maybe a one on one discussion with the head/lead judge of the particular class with entrants so that the entrant is aware of what is expected of them and their car if entered. SAAC forum members are typically aware of requirements or at least will typically ask questions related to the venue. It is those that don't keep up on current expectations that are at issue.  I am glad to see the mandatory multi picture requirement being implemented . I believe the cars being restored and built up to the day before the concours event should not be given a picture pass . There have been cars in the past almost every year that were entered that had no business being judged . I don't know of any concours judge in the SAAC ,MCA or Mid America Shelby community that enjoys telling a entrant that their car is not ready for concours judging regardless of if restorer or a owner .  By prequalifying the cars it saves the entrant time and money and possibly embarrassment. It saves the judge from the sensitive issue of explaining to the entrant why their car is not qualified to be judged. Compromising a enthusiast's enthusiasm on purpose is not what any of us signed up for. Keep in mind that judging is done by those volunteering their time. I for one do not want to give up my vacation time on a car that does not qualify minimum standards.

What the heck kind of judges couldn't detect that the color was not offered Shelby color? Seems like a "wrong" color should have got the deduction anyway. This clown made fools out of the show judges and is laughing all the way to his trophy...lol

I suppose you didn't read or didn't understand the original post otherwise you would not have misspoke and blamed the problem on the judge. It was the board that reinstated the points for the wrong color. Apparently the board took the owners argument at face value and made their judgment without knowing all of the related facts .  Regardless of color change , wrong tint, non Shelby color. It still remains as wrong color for the car. The judge/judges apparently deducted legitimately and did their job as expected .

If it's the same board that has jurisdiction over this site that doesn't surprise me.

Chris

[KR500]

We had an issue awhile back with a car that was being judged had been a color change .  After the owner had been told that the color change would be a severe deduction the owner made a big stink  and emailed all the Board of directors saying that we were changing the rules (which we didnt) It was clear in the judging sheets that the deduction was 30 points.   It  seems somewhere in the archives of ancient SAAC judging he found something that said any Shelby American color that was applicable for that year would be acceptable .  Im not sure how old that was but I couldnt find it going back ten years. Ironically after all this hissy fit and agreeing to re-instate the points we later found out that the color the car was painted wasnt even a shelby color . We had 27 owners that followed the rules and 1 that made a hissy fit and got his way.  If it was my call I would have let the deductions stand.
    Thus,  this is where we are now on color changes.  We are of the concensus that the color of the car when it left the factory is very, very important . Going forward ,  A car that is Color changed entered in SAAC Premiere  (D1)  will not be allowed to be judged period!  It will be be downgraded to SAAC Concours! However in SAAC Concourse (D2)   a color change will be allowed to be judged as long as its a color that was available for that year car!  BUT  that car will not be eligible for a gold award at all and will basicly start  as a Silver and go from there. 
   
    We feel this rule is one that will help SAAC protect the integrity of the Marque and SAAC Judging

This rule (color change no deduction for factory available colors for that M/Y)  was put in place some time in the mid to late 90's for division 2 cars only. I am not sure when it was dropped.
Rodney

[Mike Shally]

I totally agree with the proposed changes, any change of color in in both divisions of concours requires a stiff penalty.
Mike Shally

[1175]

Slightly off topic, but is there any deduction for Le Mans stripes on a post 1966 Shelby Mustang?  If not, I think there should be.  Not joking.

Jon

[JD]

Slightly off topic, but is there any deduction for Le Mans stripes on a post 1966 Shelby Mustang?  If not, I think there should be.  Not joking.

Jon

Yes there is a deduction for that

[Bob Gaines]

Slightly off topic, but is there any deduction for Le Mans stripes on a post 1966 Shelby Mustang?  If not, I think there should be.  Not joking.

Jon

Yes there is a deduction for that

To add- unless reasonable proof can be provided to support the addition prior to delivery to the first owner . This is in place for any out of the ordinary issue that may be on or done to a particular car. With that said I have yet to have supporting reasonable proof of installation of Lemans stripe prior to first owner delivery provided for a regular production 67 Shelby in SAAC ,MCA or Mid America concours venues. 

[acman63]

What the heck kind of judges couldn't detect that the color was not offered Shelby color? Seems like a "wrong" color should have got the deduction anyway. This clown made fools out of the show judges and is laughing all the way to his trophy...lol

Fool Judges LOL   Hardly!  Maybe instead of making a ridiculous post like you made,  you should come out and help judge sometime instead of sitting on the bleachers taking pot shots  behind a keyboard. Find out what really goes on on the show field.  The judging teams are some of the most knowledgeable people concerning shelbys in the world.  They dont get paid,  they travel to the show on their own dime . They face extreme pressure to make sure the cars are judged fairly under sometimes extreme conditions .  You shouldn't cast aspersions about something  without knowing the facts and you didn't read the original post very closely .  The judges properly deducted the maximum 30 points  downgrading  the car to a silver when referencing the original rouge iris as original and the car painted the light blue at the show. . Unless you carry original ac cars color chips around I doubt you would notice any factory color differences between the color it was painted and the original AC Cars Princess Blue.

And by the way.  The Board of Directors didn't cave in on the decision . The owner had the old rule and this was the impetus for us  to make the change and put the old rule out to pasture .    Personally , I would love to say , incorrect color - we aren't going to even judge the car even in D2  . But we dont want to make this so strict that nobody will bring out their cars.  Trust me ,  restoring a car to show standard  and then carting it all over the country to shows is a lot of  time and effort  not to mention cost. Our goal is to achieve a happy medium and not drive the show car owners away .

[66TotalPerf]

I assisted with judging at SAAC40, with Brant, but I guess I'm not clear on how awards are decided. I thought the head judges comprised the Board; is this not the case? Can someone outline how a car is determined to receive an award after the judge who actually rated the car submits his points sheet? Thanks!