Oil pan cofiguration question

[jamesfee]

I am in the process of digging out 2021 and it is like an archaeological dig... just in my garage. Anyway, I came across the oilpan that came with the vehicle when I got it in '72. It is the slab-sided COBRA pan, not the one with the wings & baffles. I have checked the various Registries I have and could not find any specific info on this so I thought I would throw the question out. Is this possibly an original pan?
The car was setup for SCCA B Prod racing when I bought it. The question of course is why would the guy change from a T type pan to a slab sided pan? 

[gt350hr]

  James it is not original to a GT350. The Cobra "roadster" pan was never installed on a production GT350. It also wasn't "standard issue" on a Cobra , it was an option. Hard to say how it got on your car , but it "was done" .
   Randy

[jamesfee]

Thanks, Randy. This is just one of those problems like a birds nest in your fishing reel. You've gotta keep pulling all the little ends to try and get the whole mess straightened out. I'm not sure why I've got what I have but after almost 50 years a lot gets lost in the haze.

jim

[gt350hr]

 Yes you are right. It "could" have been any number of reasons from "look" to replacing a damaged original. At least it was installed before repops became available.
   Randy

[Dan Case]

The COBRA POWERED BY FORD cast aluminum was the "big" pan you will see recorded on new Cobra invoices. It was originally offered as a dress up and racing part by Shelby American as a regular production option for Cobras. Ford Motor Company advertised and sold as both a dress up item and a race accessory. Yes they slightly increase oil sump capacity but no they are not a good idea for any kind of racing.

1) They are heavy. Adding weight to a race car is not generally desired unless the benefits (like safety improvement, chassis stiffness, etc.) are worth it.

2) They have no slosh control features.

3) If sufficient oil is not in the sump oil starvation can happen in any kind of road race course play.

4) Because they are sand castings and somewhat variable you should make sure the oil pump pickup is not too close to the sump floor. If too close oil supply to the pump can be reduced a little to a lot. This is especially true if your engine has a 1962 model year pickup assembly for any reason as they extend down further than 1963 and later models.  (Same issue if you put a 1962 pickup together with a 1963 or later 260/289 stock oil pan, i.e. the pickup can end up almost touching a stock and if the pan gets damaged and push up can cut off oil flow to almost nothing.  I have a picture Mr. Mannel took of a 1963 260/289 stock pan on a XHP-260 Cobra engine with a 1962 pickup and you can see the faint circle in the bottom of the oil pan where the pickup vibrated and touched enough to make a mark on the floor.)


Shelby American cut up and modified stock oil pans for their own race Cobras adding multiple oil control features and large wide new sumps. Being fabricated by different employees as required over a couple of years there were quite a few different versions of race shop "Cobra" racing steel oil pans.

I put a first version (There were dimensional mistakes in the drawings for the first castings. The original drawings were marked up and the pattern changed to make the second of two known versions.) COBRA POWERED BY FORD cast aluminum on our black car. With sufficient oil pickup clearance and oil quantity installed I use to run open track events at Hallet® in Oklahoma with no oil pressure problems running up to 7,000± rpm much of the time.

[TJinSA]

It would also be useful to note there two configurations touted to be "original".  One fits 260s and 289s; the other will accommodate the longer stroke of the '68 and later 302.  The former, to the best of my knowledge was never reproduced.  The later, by design, is an over-counter piece.  They can be distinguished externally by looking at the fins toward the back of the pan.  Original 260/289 pan fins are consistent in depth and height, front to rear.  Over-counter pans, on the other hand, had an additional wedge area cast into the interior of the pan to clear the 302 crank's counterweights. While only about a 1/4", it is visible from the outside because while the fin heights remained the same, the depth of the grooves between them decreased to virtually zero at the point of the end of the wedge taken from the interior. 

Thus is a basis for discussion: "What does original mean?"  Contemporaneous with and for Cobra roadster production, or marketed by SAI for the mass market?

[jamesfee]

Many thanks to all for the education! What I have appears to be the OTC pan Tom described with a section at the rear fins being different. My apologies for the dirty condition but this was a case of "ridden hard and put away wet" many years ago.

jim

[Dan Case]

Many thanks to all for the education! What I have appears to be the OTC pan Tom described with a section at the rear fins being different. My apologies for the dirty condition but this was a case of "ridden hard and put away wet" many years ago.

jim

Based only on those pictures there is probably an original 1963-65 made pan under the grime.  To tell first or second Cobra part version means checking the fit of the rear of the pan on the rear main cap: 1st issue leaves a big gap that must be filled with elastomeric sealer.. The corrected 2nd version fits the rear main cap correctly. SA installed and sold both types as did Ford.  Ford and or large dealers were still selling "original COBRA" goodies over the counter when they pulled plug on its performance activities around 1971-72.

Original means lots of things to lots of different people.   There is not a big market for 1963-65 'original' pans. The only cars they were 'original' for as factory installed options were Cobras. Long term owners did what they wanted a long time ago. Recent buyers use to like to dress their Cobras up until about 2006. It was around 2006 the trend of removing anything not on the original invoice started, including roll bars, custom wheels, wide custom fender flares, custom engine parts of all kinds, and etc. I have helped an owner go from an aftermarket induction system back to engineering number and acceptable date "assembly line" induction system from the iron intake manifold up.

Dan

[jamesfee]

Original means lots of things to lots of different people.   There is not a big market for 1963-65 'original' pans. The only cars they were 'original' for as factory installed options were Cobras. Long term owners did what they wanted a long time ago. Recent buyers use to like to dress their Cobras up until about 2006. It was around 2006 the trend of removing anything not on the original invoice started, including roll bars, custom wheels, wide custom fender flares, custom engine parts of all kinds, and etc. I have helped an owner go from an aftermarket induction system back to engineering number and acceptable date "assembly line" induction system from the iron intake manifold up.

Dan
[/quote]

Thank you for that insightful observation Dan. I see the polar shift in attitudes, particularly on sites like this one. It's difficult at times for me to understand the desire to "go back" to stock, but I have been messin' around with  Blue (1801) for 50 years - I've owned 2021 47 years. In many ways I cut my Hot Rodding teeth on Blue so while I can appreciate folks working to recreate the originals that Carroll built, mine was the starting point of a life's journey. I try not to make any modifications that will hamper the next "caretaker" but I'm still going at it.

jim

[sfm5s081]

6S1124 had one too. It seems to be Shelby America OTC. I replaced it with a correct T pan repro from Tony Branda.