5aa Charcoal metalic interior paint

[Bob Gaines]

I found a guy. The issue is the product description is showing as 69 Cougar charcoal.


Now I think it's 1k, single stage,  meaning just shoot it with no hardener, no clear coat, but they don't know. "Read the instructions".

Now apparently "poly" means it has metallic in it, and the flatness is built into the formula.

The color chip looks grey. My two cars, the 68 and 67 both look different. The 67 is flatter. The 68 looks blacker.

Apparently you affect the results of that by spraying it lighter and drier.


I have a friend who is following the entire scenario ask, "do you drink?" I said no. He said, "you should".


I got tired of shooting at stationary targets. 99 out of 100 was a bad day. I need moving targets. "How can you shoot women and children? Easy...you don't lead them as much." Yikes.


At $165 a quart, if it's wrong, maybe it'll mix with Scotch? Oh I forgot. I don't drink.

Thanks for the offer. I'm cool. I've got it under control...I think? 

The colors are meant to be all the same 67-70 whether Cougar or Mustang. With two different year cars or even two different plants in the same year the issue maybe variations in batches of the same color paint  between the two examples.

[shelbydoug]

FWIW the stuff I used (image posted above in Reply #8) was single-stage and we had to add flattener to it for the "correct" sheen.

Did you have to do that by eye, on the spot or is it possible to add that to the formula before hand? My 67 is flatter then the 68.

I remember you, someone,  talking about that and referring to flattening it in percentages? Like you felt it needed to be flattened 20% additionally.

I would say that the picture that Jeff posted of the back of the the trap door is about the flatness that my 67's dash is but others talked about shooting it "drier".

Drier is going to effect the texture and make it coarser to the touch won't it?

[shelbydoug]

I found a guy. The issue is the product description is showing as 69 Cougar charcoal.


Now I think it's 1k, single stage,  meaning just shoot it with no hardener, no clear coat, but they don't know. "Read the instructions".

Now apparently "poly" means it has metallic in it, and the flatness is built into the formula.

The color chip looks grey. My two cars, the 68 and 67 both look different. The 67 is flatter. The 68 looks blacker.

Apparently you affect the results of that by spraying it lighter and drier.


I have a friend who is following the entire scenario ask, "do you drink?" I said no. He said, "you should".


I got tired of shooting at stationary targets. 99 out of 100 was a bad day. I need moving targets. "How can you shoot women and children? Easy...you don't lead them as much." Yikes.


At $165 a quart, if it's wrong, maybe it'll mix with Scotch? Oh I forgot. I don't drink.

Thanks for the offer. I'm cool. I've got it under control...I think? 

The colors are meant to be all the same 67-70 whether Cougar or Mustang. With two different year cars or even two different plants in the same year the issue maybe variations in batches of the same color paint  between the two examples.

So Cougar IS the same as the Mustang? Fine by me. I just was looking for verification of that. Thanks for that.

[J_Speegle]

I would say that the picture that Jeff posted of the back of the the trap door is about the flatness that my 67's dash is but others talked about shooting it "drier".

Drier is going to effect the texture and make it coarser to the touch won't it?

Like many things there are multiple paths to the same end. I've found when I lay on too heavy of a final coat it will fill in texture and result in a glossier finish. Not looking to add texture from the paint coat just eliminate the possibility of producing a non-factory like final look

[shelbydoug]

I'm not adverse to having more flat agent mixed in initially but I need a number on that.

I'd rather have the paint do the work rather then have to be a magician and pull a rabbit out of my hat.

[shelbymann1970]

Nobody has mentioned this but over the years restoring 69s and using the charcoal black I found out early on  that with  rattle cans it was impossible for me to spray large areas like trap doors or rear side panels with a consistent look. So for a long time I would "gun spray" all my part hanging and could control the finish much better. Gary

[shelbydoug]

Nobody has mentioned this but over the years restoring 69s and using the charcoal black I found out early on  that with  rattle cans it was impossible for me to spray large areas like trap doors or rear side panels with a consistent look. So for a long time I would "gun spray" all my part hanging and could control the finish much better. Gary

You can't do detailed work or control the metallic content with a spray can. The metallic all seems to settle to the bottom of the can and solidifies.

Even with a spray gun, you need to go back to the old method of putting marbles in the cup to help keep the metallic in suspension while shaking the spray gun constantly.

The big panels you are just going to get runs in using spray cans.

The question to me is why none of the "vendors" keep any of this paint in cans.

[1967 eight barrel]

I had a hell of a time with the 5766 for my Shelby. Most of the bases have all changed because of the never ending BS from the EPA. So color formulas aren't even able to be made in new mediums.
I went two stage with the interior. I got the white, but it was only available in the two stage. I sprayed it and used a product called Vintage Clear. The finalized finish is controlled by the amount of hardner added to the clear. You can go from semi-gloss to flat. Because of the call out for different colors it worked very well and is much more durable than spray-can finishes and single stage paints.
                                                                           -Keith

[Coralsnake]

Your challenges in this area demonstrate why the the two stage painting systems are allowed in concours shows. With access limited to various paints, you would potentially be excluding many participants.

[JD]

I'm not adverse to having more flat agent mixed in initially but I need a number on that.

I'd rather have the paint do the work rather then have to be a magician and pull a rabbit out of my hat.

we used a light coat of flat black primer as a base under the final, and seem to remember adding 30 percent-ish of flattener as what we got was provided as gloss.  Two coats of final as it did not cover well enough wit just one coat.

Hope that helps

[shelbydoug]

Your challenges in this area demonstrate why the the two stage painting systems are allowed in concours shows. With access limited to various paints, you would potentially be excluding many participants.

So far, you can get any paint that you want on the Internet. Unavailability of the Ditzler interior here is just that no one wants to carry it and for a quart, no one is interested in getting it.

There are lots of unregulated states that sell all the bad stuff. No one checks what anyone is spraying here. Even if they did, how would you know what is in the paint gun?

Not using Acrylic Enamel is more of a professional preferance. I did a car in Deltron, one step. That's the bad stuff that produces potasium cyanide while curing.

The stuff runs all over, is impossible to sand down and polish out. It's intended to just shoot and go.

The reason I did it initially was because it was the "toughest finish" you can put on the car. As it turns out, that's BS. It chips easily all over the place. The killer is it's an SOB to strip it down again.

Original finishes are available. They are easier to find then original production line parts date coced correctly.

The ruling of any paint finishes allowed is just a political one yielding to strong lobbyists. Plain and simple. So be it. As long as there is a standardized rule book for the competition. That's all it is though. Just a competition. It is not a representation of how the car came off the assembly line. The car is merely a caricature of that.

As far as finding the paint though, didn't someone say that part of the fun is in the hunt? It certainly is educational and of high value just for that alone. No complaints on my part and thanks to everyone who helped and continues to help.

[shelbydoug]

I'm not adverse to having more flat agent mixed in initially but I need a number on that.

I'd rather have the paint do the work rather then have to be a magician and pull a rabbit out of my hat.

we used a light coat of flat black primer as a base under the final, and seem to remember adding 30 percent-ish of flattener as what we got was provided as gloss.  Two coats of final as it did not cover well enough wit just one coat.

Hope that helps

JD. You are saying that the "original formula" that you used was gloss? I thought that it had flattening agent already mixed in as part of the formula?

This is why I don't trust the shop mixing for me. I have experience from that from 35 years ago. Those guys screw up all of the time and you can't tell until you spray and find the color is wrong, then have to go all through the process and do it again.

"Factory" mixed is the best results by far.

[shelbymann1970]

I guess I have been lucky as I never have had a problem spraying the paint. I have done many. Runs could be a problem with rattle cans but the problem I have had is as you spray out it dries too fast giving you that mismatched dry over spray. I also use a touch up gun to spray as it holds what I need. Yes I have used marbles before but not on my 68 Shelby and it came out great and I am pretty anal on it being done right. I actually rattle canned my engine bay on my 68 and it came out awesome. I had to re-do it thanks to over spray by my painter doing the body so chose the less invasive way. When I sold the car 5 years later the bay looked as good as the day I did it.

[shelbydoug]

Nice job. Looks nice.

In addition to what I've said, I've experienced variation in paint types in spray cans. Rattle cans tending not to be the original industrial paint type applied. More of an unknown type of a "Krylon" made so "Johnny Bench" can spray it without runs in 30 seconds.

The 67-8-9 Mustang/Cougar interior "Charcoal" paint is more then just a little different and although the learning curve isn't a particularly high one, it is a little steep. Unless you have done one before and experienced some of the pitfalls, you need to learn it yourself UNLESS you can pick the brains of others willing to share like you can here.

Sharing experiences here only helps. Everyone seems to have had a little different route to get the right results. I never thought of using a flat base coat first. That's not what I'm seeing on my original panels but is a professional shortcut to better results.

Thanks to those who have pointed that out. For sure that comes from a school of hard knocks. 

[JD]

JD. You are saying that the "original formula" that you used was gloss? I thought that it had flattening agent already mixed in as part of the formula?

This is why I don't trust the shop mixing for me. I have experience from that from 35 years ago. Those guys screw up all of the time and you can't tell until you spray and find the color is wrong, then have to go all through the process and do it again.

"Factory" mixed is the best results by far.

Yes, this was in 2006 and gloss is how the paint we got was supplied.  Four of us needed this paint and were having some trouble getting it.  One guy found it and was able to  get a gallon and had it divided into quarts that's why my name is on the quart can in the photo.  We found out how "thin" it was when spraying the first car and stopped to lay-down a dark base to get the coverage.  Mine was the second car painted. One quart JUST did one car.