Will this rumor never die

[shelbydoug]

That story seems very fishy? It has echos of this "I had it dealer installed" story. A "assembly line special install" is even more far fetched? Is this guy going to claim assembly line installed headers too?

The biggest issue with just dropping in a 427 into a Mustang or Cougar would be what heads you have because the exhaust manifods choices are limited.

The MR heads don't fit the 390 exhaust manifolds or the CJ manifolds.

The closest you can come with the 67 medium rise 427 engine is the 67 Fairlane manifolds. Those are not made for the Mustang/Cougar and there are interference points with them as cast.


Now the 427MR heads could have been modified in the castings rather simply by adding the additional materials to go to a 14 bolt CJ type manifold but it wasn't. What didn't exist explains as much about what wasn't built as much as anything.

Final analysis by engineering just showed that the CJ was a better choice for a production engine. The W is just a big cruiser mama which fit better into a Cougar concept and isn't even close to a NASCAR potential as built.

[propayne]

Interesting that starting in late March early April Ford installed what essentially would be the Cobra Jet head on the 427 but with 14 exhaust bolt holes?

Randy also mentions over on the Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Forum that he has original Ford docs that refer to the 427 hydraulic engine as the 427CJ and or 427 Cobra Jet.

- Phillip

[gt350hr]

   Phillip,
      Yes there are some Ford papers that reference those call outs.  Another similar callout was the 351C 4V that was called the 351GT engine and the Boss 429 was initially called 429 Nascar or Blue Crescent. The Boss 302 was called the Sedan Race 302 until the car was given the Boss moniker instead of the "proposed" SR2 it was initially going to be called. "Normal" lead time for introducing a new engine is 3 years ( for a clean sheet design) and less if it is a "redesign" . Names and componentry can and does change during that time as we've seen. Many ideas have never seen the light of day. A prefect example  is the "Probe V8" that was built when the Probe was to be the Mustang replacement. Neither happened but the engine was built and tested.
   Randy

[Coralsnake]

Neat information. I have been told that one of the first 351C engines was installed in a 1969 Shelby

[gt350hr]

     Pete ,
        One of the things Ford engine engineers did when changing / creating new parts on (SK) blueprints was note the engine series the part was used on. Many note the particular engine family and that is where some of the name references I have came from. Others pages refer to the "RX" number for that engine family.
      Randy

[1968]

Interesting that starting in late March early April Ford installed what essentially would be the Cobra Jet head on the 427 but with 14 exhaust bolt holes?

Randy also mentions over on the Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Forum that he has original Ford docs that refer to the 427 hydraulic engine as the 427CJ and or 427 Cobra Jet.

- Phillip

That is interesting.  I wonder if Ford originally planned to use the 427 hydraulic with the Cobra Jet performance upgrades (basically the bigger carb, better intake, and Cobra Jet heads with the better exhaust set up) to make it the Cobra Jet engine option before Ford decided sometime before mid-year to use the 428 for that project.  Obviously, the 428 was a cheaper way to get nearly the same performance.

[gt350hr]

  The 427 Hydraulic engine planned for the Mustang was THE engine used in the GTE Cougar at first. 600 carb , aluminum intake etc. There was nothing in common to the later released 428CJ except valve covers and some of the smog components.
  Randy

[1968]

  The 427 Hydraulic engine planned for the Mustang was THE engine used in the GTE Cougar at first. 600 carb , aluminum intake etc. There was nothing in common to the later released 428CJ except valve covers and some of the smog components.
  Randy

Yep.  Just curious as to whether the "427 Cobra Jet" plan might have been to use the W Code 427 block with the Cobra Jet performance upgrades (intake, carb, exhaust) before deciding that they could make it work with the 428.

[gt350hr]

   Probably not as none of the CJ parts were designed when the 427 was being considered. The cast iron intakes were in prototype stage in June '67 , The C8AE-J heads were finalized ( for Mustang use) in Dec '67 and C8OE-N Heads weren't made until Feb of '68. None of which fit the 427 time frame.  As I've said before Ford didn't function like your local speed shop. There were many hoops to jump through to get something built.
     Randy

[shelbymann1970]

That story seems very fishy? It has echos of this "I had it dealer installed" story. A "assembly line special install" is even more far fetched? Is this guy going to claim assembly line installed headers too?

The biggest issue with just dropping in a 427 into a Mustang or Cougar would be what heads you have because the exhaust manifods choices are limited.

The MR heads don't fit the 390 exhaust manifolds or the CJ manifolds.

The closest you can come with the 67 medium rise 427 engine is the 67 Fairlane manifolds. Those are not made for the Mustang/Cougar and there are interference points with them as cast.


Now the 427MR heads could have been modified in the castings rather simply by adding the additional materials to go to a 14 bolt CJ type manifold but it wasn't. What didn't exist explains as much about what wasn't built as much as anything.

Final analysis by engineering just showed that the CJ was a better choice for a production engine. The W is just a big cruiser mama which fit better into a Cougar concept and isn't even close to a NASCAR potential as built.

The guy in question his dad was a bigshot at Ford. We live in Ford country. He has a 427 in the 68.5. He has the original 428CJ he says new and never used. I highly doubt it would have been installed on the assy line but in another area of the factory with parts as needed. Said guy is a successful business owner here a few miles west of Dearborn. doesn't appear to be a shyster or BSer. I've conversed with enough of them. I just never found the time to go check it out. He enters in shows in his immediate area. Maybe i'll run into him or call him this summer to see what he has. I'm as skeptical  as the next guy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Gary

[6s341]

Note promotional letter from CS in 1968 to prospective buyers...especially the last sentence in the second paragraph!

[Coralsnake]

Thank you, I was looking for that
Etter

[Coralsnake]

Its dead now LOL

[shelbydoug]

That story seems very fishy? It has echos of this "I had it dealer installed" story. A "assembly line special install" is even more far fetched? Is this guy going to claim assembly line installed headers too?

The biggest issue with just dropping in a 427 into a Mustang or Cougar would be what heads you have because the exhaust manifods choices are limited.

The MR heads don't fit the 390 exhaust manifolds or the CJ manifolds.

The closest you can come with the 67 medium rise 427 engine is the 67 Fairlane manifolds. Those are not made for the Mustang/Cougar and there are interference points with them as cast.


Now the 427MR heads could have been modified in the castings rather simply by adding the additional materials to go to a 14 bolt CJ type manifold but it wasn't. What didn't exist explains as much about what wasn't built as much as anything.

Final analysis by engineering just showed that the CJ was a better choice for a production engine. The W is just a big cruiser mama which fit better into a Cougar concept and isn't even close to a NASCAR potential as built.

The guy in question his dad was a bigshot at Ford. We live in Ford country. He has a 427 in the 68.5. He has the original 428CJ he says new and never used. I highly doubt it would have been installed on the assy line but in another area of the factory with parts as needed. Said guy is a successful business owner here a few miles west of Dearborn. doesn't appear to be a shyster or BSer. I've conversed with enough of them. I just never found the time to go check it out. He enters in shows in his immediate area. Maybe i'll run into him or call him this summer to see what he has. I'm as skeptical  as the next guy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Gary

Well, this really opens the door to installing any engine in this car. It could be a left over 67 medium riser from the 67 production run.

I doubt that it would be a big block Chevy, but why not?

This really is why we don't care what is really in the car, we care what the engine code says. That is also how the data should recognize it as well.  Unless it was a 68 W or a 67 R, the "system" won't see it.

This is also THE issue with the interior color codes and smooth or comfort weave vinyls as recently "discussed" in another thread. All anyone can do is go by what the data shows.

[gt350hr]

That story seems very fishy? It has echos of this "I had it dealer installed" story. A "assembly line special install" is even more far fetched? Is this guy going to claim assembly line installed headers too?

The biggest issue with just dropping in a 427 into a Mustang or Cougar would be what heads you have because the exhaust manifods choices are limited.

The MR heads don't fit the 390 exhaust manifolds or the CJ manifolds.

The closest you can come with the 67 medium rise 427 engine is the 67 Fairlane manifolds. Those are not made for the Mustang/Cougar and there are interference points with them as cast.


Now the 427MR heads could have been modified in the castings rather simply by adding the additional materials to go to a 14 bolt CJ type manifold but it wasn't. What didn't exist explains as much about what wasn't built as much as anything.

Final analysis by engineering just showed that the CJ was a better choice for a production engine. The W is just a big cruiser mama which fit better into a Cougar concept and isn't even close to a NASCAR potential as built.

The guy in question his dad was a bigshot at Ford. We live in Ford country. He has a 427 in the 68.5. He has the original 428CJ he says new and never used. I highly doubt it would have been installed on the assy line but in another area of the factory with parts as needed. Said guy is a successful business owner here a few miles west of Dearborn. doesn't appear to be a shyster or BSer. I've conversed with enough of them. I just never found the time to go check it out. He enters in shows in his immediate area. Maybe i'll run into him or call him this summer to see what he has. I'm as skeptical  as the next guy. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Gary

     Gary,
         The fact that he has both engines is the clue here.  Produced with the 428 on the line and "possibly" changed at the X garage ( if his dad had enough clout) or DST ( that also did conversions for "the right" people). I don't doubt he had it done but we all know the W code Mustang never happened on the assembly line.
    Randy