Will this rumor never die

[shelbydoug]

If I said "two" that is an error. I believe the number to be five or six, possibly a couple more. I think all of those cars were invoiced to European dealers. Maybe mongo can clarify?

Thanks Doug

   Thanks Pete and Doug . It's not my ego , I just want to have the correct information. I knew ( from you) that the two prototypes had them . I appreciate the news ( to me anyway) there are four more that had them "originally".
   Randy

The invoices are the only thing I can think of on the '68s that would indicate 10 spokes. Who installed them is also a mystery. Probably smith. I'd like to know what they did with the fronts to make them clear the brake housings.

I know what I did, but that's not what I'm saying.

At the time there were1,900 invoices missing. Emenger had the same invoices. Same ones missing.
That leaves plenty of room for a few more.

[1968]

Does anyone know the source of the 427 rumor?  I have seen it repeated many times.

[Bob Gaines]

Does anyone know the source of the 427 rumor?  I have seen it repeated many times.

There were probably multiple sources. The 427 upgrade was a very desired upgrade and on everyone's wish list back in the day. The 427 engine was legendary. The source is most likely the first person who installed a 427 engine to replace the stock 428 after it blew up and wanted to justify the non stock engine. The scenario was most likely repeated time and time again with no connection to each other. Some stories had more embellishments then others. It was done out of the misguided necessity to be someone or have something special IMO. 

[shelbydoug]

The source in my view, was the '82 SAAC Registry.

An information form was printed by SAAC where owners could tear it out of the magazine, fill it in and send it in for inclusion into the '82 Registry.

On that form for '67s, 8's and '9s was a box to check for original 427 engine or dealer installed 427 engine. No documentation was required.

Registrars were instructed merely to gather information on cars. No request for documentation was asked for. Just report was submitted.

This was a time when there was no clear view that there was any future for SAAC or would even be around for another 5 years. Information to fill in vast amounts of blank spaces was desirable if not even necessary in the administrations view.

At some point the author/editor wrote something to the effect that "it was thought that 25 to 50 427 cars were built".

The justification was it was felt at "the executive level", that it was ok to make mistakes in this process because correction would be part of the process of getting accurate information down the road. It would create controversy and that would "smoke out" accurate information.



I suppose that gathering information of something that so many people then thought was a causal thing rather then an actual historical event is the root cause of this current situation of continuing to quote something that was almost casually written 35 years ago. It's a ghost of a self created fiction that just won't go away even though the record has been corrected over and over again.

Almost like case law that has evolved and overruled by more current court decisions like the Dread Scott decision and current press only has texts that date from 1859?

[propayne]

Also, in the case of the '68 Shelby, the 427 was listed as an option in some dealer literature but apparently by the time actual production began (all of the literature had to be prepared well in advance) the 427 option was dropped.

356 Mercury Cougar GT-Es did receive the 427 (hydraulic lifters) from the factory and have the "w" engine code. Lots of rumors of Mustangs with a "w" engine code but when Kevin Marti licensed the Ford computer production data it appeared no Mustangs were produced by the factory with the 427.

It is odd that Ford would go to the expense of putting the 427 in the Cougar and not the Mustang but it appears that that is what happened. More than likely because Mercury planned to race the Cougar with the 427 and even filed the homologation papers - but that too never happened.

- Phillip

[Coralsnake]

Does anyone know the source of the 427 rumor?  I have seen it repeated many times

It did appear in Ford literature before production started, but was dropped before production started. No one has ever come up with a documented 1968 Shelby that has a 427 in 50 years.

Ford would not have substituted a motor under a 428 PI or 428 CJ engine code.

There were no 427 engines at NJ assembly (all Mustang) or AO Smith, the subcontractor

[shelbydoug]

Also, in the case of the '68 Shelby, the 427 was listed as an option in some dealer literature but apparently by the time actual production began (all of the literature had to be prepared well in advance) the 427 option was dropped.

356 Mercury Cougar GT-Es did receive the 427 (hydraulic lifters) from the factory and have the "w" engine code. Lots of rumors of Mustangs with a "w" engine code but when Kevin Marti licensed the Ford computer production data it appeared no Mustangs were produced by the factory with the 427.

It is odd that Ford would go to the expense of putting the 427 in the Cougar and not the Mustang but it appears that that is what happened. More than likely because Mercury planned to race the Cougar with the 427 and even filed the homologation papers - but that too never happened.

- Phillip

It is currently thought that there were no W code Mustangs built in '68. Just W Cougars. This is all accepted as accurate information but I would add that recently there are people other then Marti who have gained access to Ford documentation independently questioning the accuracy of Kevin Marti's information, how he gets it and how he reports it.

When John Paradise owned the Super Ford Magazine, a discussion that I had with him, he said he had seen several W code Mustangs.

Now not to get into a "he said, she said", but when "experts" are claiming authority on something now, in my view, they had better have documentation that they can clearly produce right here and right now for all to see.

So far, I have not seen a print out of all cars produced by Ford that Marti claims to have information on. I also think that we are at a point when it needs to be produced.


It should also be noted that the '68 W 427 is not the '67 R version. The 67 version really can be considered the "competition based" MR heads, solid lifter cam, dual 4 Holley carbs and the '68 version is essentially a 390GT with a 427 hydraulic lifter block and is hardly a serious race engine. So looking for one is really of questionable value to begin with.

[Vcode]

There is a discussion on the CJ forum on the 67 427 development cars.

https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php?topic=26391.0

[Bigblock]

When John Paradise owned the Super Ford Magazine, a discussion that I had with him, he said he had seen several W code Mustangs.

I was at John's first Super Ford swap meet in Seneca, 77/78? and there was for sale a 68 fastback roller that had the 'W' VIN stamped on both fender aprons. I asked John about the car at the time and he said it was real. Now we all know someone can be handy with a punch.

I have a letter from Ford somewhere 'safe' in my house that states around 3000 W 427s were built and they only went into Cougars. Other use listed was marine and irrigation systems.

Dealer literature also listed the 302 Tunnel Port as an option for 68.

[shelbydoug]

A jury has to consider all witness testimony and decide which conflicting testimony to accept and reject in it's decision.

I personally would not put much credence in what John would testify to but I need to seriously consider it, even momentarily? 

For Marti to say that he hasn't found one yet is fine. I want to see the documentation which in this case would be a print out.

As I previously said, to me,  a W isn't worth the effort of the hunt. It's like hunting for a Hemi taxi cab. So what?

[427heaven]

^^^ Or a toothless tiger, Everyone digs the king of the jungle, the mac daddy. A warmed up GT 390 with a juice cam in it, is more of a snapping turtle with little snapping power. Doesn't have much wow factor to it.

[propayne]

Some specs on the '68 w code 427 - from the book "The Mystery Muscle Car: Mercury Cougar 7.0 Litre GT-E" by Don Skinner.

- Phillip

[gt350hr]

When John Paradise owned the Super Ford Magazine, a discussion that I had with him, he said he had seen several W code Mustangs.

I was at John's first Super Ford swap meet in Seneca, 77/78? and there was for sale a 68 fastback roller that had the 'W' VIN stamped on both fender aprons. I asked John about the car at the time and he said it was real. Now we all know someone can be handy with a punch.

I have a letter from Ford somewhere 'safe' in my house that states around 3000 W 427s were built and they only went into Cougars. Other use listed was marine and irrigation systems.

Dealer literature also listed the 302 Tunnel Port as an option for 68.

     The "proposed" number was 3,000 but the "built" number of engine code 359 was closer to 400.  Kevin Marti has the Ford data base and has checked for the elusive  "W" code Mustang and it does not exist. I have the vins for the two prototypes used as development cars for the program but they are S code , standard production fastbacks. One auto and one 4 spd. They were not re serialized .
     Randy

[1968]

Some specs on the '68 w code 427 - from the book "The Mystery Muscle Car: Mercury Cougar 7.0 Litre GT-E" by Don Skinner.

- Phillip

That is interesting.  The 1968 model year Shelby advertising literature that I have seen listed the GT500 Shelby 427 option at 400 HP.  I wonder what was planned to boost it 10 HP over the 390 HP 427 that went into the 1968 Cougar?

The 427 was planned to be automatic transmission only, right?  But it seems there was at least one 1968 Mustang prototype car built with the 427 and a 4-speed.  I wonder why if the manual transmission was never planned.

[shelbymann1970]

The closest I have heard to a 68 427 Mustang is a businessman  here in the Detroit area named Mike Wolf.  His Dad was a big shot at Ford. Ordered a blue/blue 68 R-code FB. At the Dearborn plant they installed a 427-8V for him and shipped the factory 428CJ to his house. Never saw any paperwork but he says he has it and I could see it. Many many years ago. I just never went to see his car or paperwork yet. Still an R-code and he says he still has the original 428cCJ engine. He inherited it all.  Gary