Group 22 & 24 Assembly Line Battery

[Shelby_r_b]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

How about make an outer shell that sleeves over an existing battery (not just the top plate that we currently have).  It would simple be plastic with two connections to hook up outer shell + and - posts to the + and - battery posts hidden within that shell case. 

With 3D printing these days, that's gotta be somewhat easy, right?

QSS

It sounds like a good job for you    Show us how it is done. I feel your frustration and all kidding aside once you check into this I think you you will find ( like dozens of investor others over the last at least 8 years or so have found out) that the mold process to make the case is the expensive part of the issue not the battery inside. What you are suggesting is the major stumbling block that keeps it from getting done . The people investing are looking for a return on their money and aren't doing it for "the love of the cars".  The 3 D printing would be a good alternative for limited quantities IMO but I think it is too optimistic to think that a large 3 D printed part like a battery box to be very cheap. This is a complicated subject otherwise it would have been already done. The who ever someone that tries had better have the money ,marketing skills and patience besides "gumption " to make the substantial investment pay off .  A viable injection mold along with selling enough units just to get back the initial investment are just a couple hurdles . There are others.

Everything you've said makes sense, Bob. And, you're right - there is palpable frustration with not being able to have someone produce a correct looking and operating battery. Truth be told, the battery is one of the first things I notice when I look under the hood of a classic and it's disappointing to see a battery that I know works great, but doesn't look correct.

With that vain in mind, what is the best way to preserve one of the repop batteries that looks correct? It sounds like I should be ready to call a tow truck soon. 

[QuickSilverShelby]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

How about make an outer shell that sleeves over an existing battery (not just the top plate that we currently have).  It would simple be plastic with two connections to hook up outer shell + and - posts to the + and - battery posts hidden within that shell case. 

With 3D printing these days, that's gotta be somewhat easy, right?

QSS

It sounds like a good job for you    Show us how it is done. I feel your frustration and all kidding aside once you check into this I think you you will find ( like dozens of investor others over the last at least 8 years or so have found out) that the mold process to make the case is the expensive part of the issue not the battery inside. What you are suggesting is the major stumbling block that keeps it from getting done . The people investing are looking for a return on their money and aren't doing it for "the love of the cars".  The 3 D printing would be a good alternative for limited quantities IMO but I think it is too optimistic to think that a large 3 D printed part like a battery box to be very cheap. This is a complicated subject otherwise it would have been already done. The who ever someone that tries had better have the money ,marketing skills and patience besides "gumption " to make the substantial investment pay off .  A viable injection mold along with selling enough units just to get back the initial investment are just a couple hurdles . There are others.

I know your right Bob.  I've been using the cheese ball top plate "look alike" to cover my modern batteries for years.

QSS

[Bob Gaines]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

How about make an outer shell that sleeves over an existing battery (not just the top plate that we currently have).  It would simple be plastic with two connections to hook up outer shell + and - posts to the + and - battery posts hidden within that shell case. 

With 3D printing these days, that's gotta be somewhat easy, right?

QSS

It sounds like a good job for you    Show us how it is done. I feel your frustration and all kidding aside once you check into this I think you you will find ( like dozens of investor others over the last at least 8 years or so have found out) that the mold process to make the case is the expensive part of the issue not the battery inside. What you are suggesting is the major stumbling block that keeps it from getting done . The people investing are looking for a return on their money and aren't doing it for "the love of the cars".  The 3 D printing would be a good alternative for limited quantities IMO but I think it is too optimistic to think that a large 3 D printed part like a battery box to be very cheap. This is a complicated subject otherwise it would have been already done. The who ever someone that tries had better have the money ,marketing skills and patience besides "gumption " to make the substantial investment pay off .  A viable injection mold along with selling enough units just to get back the initial investment are just a couple hurdles . There are others.

Everything you've said makes sense, Bob. And, you're right - there is palpable frustration with not being able to have someone produce a correct looking and operating battery. Truth be told, the battery is one of the first things I notice when I look under the hood of a classic and it's disappointing to see a battery that I know works great, but doesn't look correct.

With that vain in mind, what is the best way to preserve one of the repop batteries that looks correct? It sounds like I should be ready to call a tow truck soon. 

There is not much you can do but do NOT let the battery go dead. That will kill a marginal battery and half the life of a new one.  Of course sometimes it is by accident . If you aren't going to drive your car for a couple weeks put it on a decent float charger/battery tender. Not to be confused with a trickle charger.

[Shelby_r_b]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

How about make an outer shell that sleeves over an existing battery (not just the top plate that we currently have).  It would simple be plastic with two connections to hook up outer shell + and - posts to the + and - battery posts hidden within that shell case. 

With 3D printing these days, that's gotta be somewhat easy, right?

QSS

It sounds like a good job for you    Show us how it is done. I feel your frustration and all kidding aside once you check into this I think you you will find ( like dozens of investor others over the last at least 8 years or so have found out) that the mold process to make the case is the expensive part of the issue not the battery inside. What you are suggesting is the major stumbling block that keeps it from getting done . The people investing are looking for a return on their money and aren't doing it for "the love of the cars".  The 3 D printing would be a good alternative for limited quantities IMO but I think it is too optimistic to think that a large 3 D printed part like a battery box to be very cheap. This is a complicated subject otherwise it would have been already done. The who ever someone that tries had better have the money ,marketing skills and patience besides "gumption " to make the substantial investment pay off .  A viable injection mold along with selling enough units just to get back the initial investment are just a couple hurdles . There are others.

Everything you've said makes sense, Bob. And, you're right - there is palpable frustration with not being able to have someone produce a correct looking and operating battery. Truth be told, the battery is one of the first things I notice when I look under the hood of a classic and it's disappointing to see a battery that I know works great, but doesn't look correct.

With that vain in mind, what is the best way to preserve one of the repop batteries that looks correct? It sounds like I should be ready to call a tow truck soon. 

There is not much you can do but do NOT let the battery go dead. That will kill a marginal battery and half the life of a new one.  Of course sometimes it is by accident . If you aren't going to drive your car for a couple weeks put it on a decent float charger/battery tender. Not to be confused with a trickle charger.

Makes sense - thanks!

[roddster]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

QSS

  Define who is going to declare what is the absolute Concours acceptance criteria...before everybody buys one.

[BGlover67]

It's simply hard to believe that people will take the time and effort to fake an entire Shelby car and yet no one has the gumption to legitimately make a concourse correct Group 22 and Group 24 battery. 

QSS

  Define who is going to declare what is the absolute Concours acceptance criteria...before everybody buys one.

That would be Pookie...

[Bossbill]

We seem to have decent pics of what group 22 and 24 batteries look like -- on the top.
But are pictures available of the long and short sides? I mean a direct head on and not just a top view that happens to show the sides?

I think a lot of people would interested in if/how the sides changed during the 64 1/2 to 67 time period. Yes, both group 22 and group 24 batteries.

Where I'm going with this is to make a mold of the repop group 24 -- I have access to one -- and remake the entire top to have the correct lettering.
Are the sides of the 68 group 24 red cap repop correct for an assembly line 67 group 24 red or yellow cap battery?

[JD]

We seem to have decent pics of what group 22 and 24 batteries look like -- on the top.
But are pictures available of the long and short sides? I mean a direct head on and not just a top view that happens to show the sides?

I think a lot of people would interested in if/how the sides changed during the 64 1/2 to 67 time period. Yes, both group 22 and group 24 batteries.

Where I'm going with this is to make a mold of the repop group 24 -- I have access to one -- and remake the entire top to have the correct lettering.
Are the sides of the 68 group 24 red cap repop correct for an assembly line 67 group 24 red or yellow cap battery?

Yes, the guys with old originals. Amperes, plates and hours amounts as well as dimensions.

[CharlesTurner]

22F and 24F have the ampere rating and number of plates molded into the short side, on the negative post side of the battery.

[Bossbill]

Per the 60-68 MPC the assembly line batteries for Mustangs were as listed here. I know, I know. The MPC isn't the authority. Let's just use this as a start point, not an end point. I'll update this post as better data comes in:

• Yr Start..........Group....Engine.....Amps...Plates...Length.....Width.....Height


• 60/4..............20.........6/8.........40........54........9 3/8.......5 1/2......8.......
• 65/7..............22.........6/8.........45........54........9.............6 3/4......8.......
• 65/7..............24.........6/8.........55........66........10 1/4......6 3/4.....8.......
• 67.................24.........8............65........66........10 1/4......6 3/4.....8.......

There were no group 20 batteries available for Mustang. It is listed as other later MPCs imply they were.
The last group 24 listed I believe is the red cap.
Also note that the amperage above is Amp Hours for the battery, not the alternator. This is often a point of confusion.

[JD]

The details you are looking for are known, the roadblock has been cost and licensing.  Also, without MCA wanting to see them in cars (no points-off for not having them) means little demand other than the hand-full of people on this and a couple other sites.

Do you have an agreement for licensing in place?  Funding?

(not trying to toss a wrench, I would like to see this happen too.  Start-up cost and Licensing was the stumbling block)

[Kent]

I have a company here in germany that can scan every kind of parts with a machine and then print this thing in plastic so where is the deal? Making a case exact like the original and then put in a batterie like the reproductions of the red cap battery are built they are also only a case with a smaller battery inside and the quality of the battery inside is poor.

[J_Speegle]

I have a company here in germany that can scan every kind of parts with a machine and then print this thing in plastic so where is the deal? ....

We have the machines available at public libraries here but the products the machines turn out often at not the quality needed for a decent/good reproduction. Then of course there is that "little "  issue of licensing. Many places will not want to expose themselves to what follows and simply refuse to do anything dealing with copyrights, registered names, logos and so on especially since these would likely be publically offered and advertised. Once made they would possibly become "required" for full points just like tires and other reproductions are today.  It's IMHO just a chicken or the egg discussion at that point. Think once you have a chicken eggs are likely to follow

I would bet that it will happen. We'll just have to see who does it first and to an acceptable level of quality

[JD]

I have a company here in germany that can scan every kind of parts with a machine and then print this thing in plastic so where is the deal? ....

We have the machines available at public libraries here but the products the machines turn out often at not the quality needed for a decent/good reproduction. Then of course there is that "little "  ::) issue of licensing. Many places will not want to expose themselves to what follows and simply refuse to do anything dealing with copyrights, registered names, logos and so on especially since these would likely be publically offered and advertised. Once made they would possibly become "required" for full points just like tires and other reproductions are today.  It's IMHO just a chicken or the egg discussion at that point. Think once you have a chicken eggs are likely to follow

I would bet that it will happen. We'll just have to see who does it first and to an acceptable level of quality

^^^Yes

The details you are looking for are known, the roadblock has been cost and licensing.  Also, without MCA wanting to see them in cars (no points-off for not having them) means little demand other than the hand-full of people on this and a couple other sites.

Do you have an agreement for licensing in place?  Funding?

(not trying to toss a wrench, I would like to see this happen too.  Start-up cost and Licensing was the stumbling block)

[Bossbill]

The details you are looking for are known, the roadblock has been cost and licensing.  Also, without MCA wanting to see them in cars (no points-off for not having them) means little demand other than the hand-full of people on this and a couple other sites.

Do you have an agreement for licensing in place?  Funding?

(not trying to toss a wrench, I would like to see this happen too.  Start-up cost and Licensing was the stumbling block)

I'm not sure if this comment was in reply to me, but my objective is to make a high durometer silicone multi-piece mold from a 68 repop --  if we concur that the case mold is the same as a 67.
After I have a top mold I will make another positive, remove the square warranty section and lay on the yellow caution in relief. Make a mold of that.
The idea is to make it hollow from a high durometer (60) urethane and hide a battery in it. The hardest part is putting lead posts in it and hooking those to the battery.

This isn't that technical -- it's the next step beyond 101 mold making. . My wife has hundreds of concrete molds, slip molds, etc so I'll enlist her help as the Mold Mistress (that sounds odd...).

I'm making it for me. I've done weirder things.