Shelby Buildings -Carter Ave.- 04/2022 1 NEW Pic - GT350 Production

[Szabo]

Thanks for the answer ...

i dont understand the term "Good Grief" but i think you like the Pics 

at the moment i find "the Henry Ford" Database with absolut impressive pics from David Friedman ...
First time i see, but i am not in the game for a few years and so i just sitting there and my wife thinks i am
nuts to sit from 8 pm to 3am bevor the laptop..

But at the Moment i am a little bit confused about all the Input in my mind

Greets

Steve

[Richstang]

I would kill to know the Vins of the cars in the photos

The only VIN I've heard thrown out is for the car in the back corner of this photo...5R002
We can see it had the rear bumper removed and appears to have the quarter roof vent out as well.

Maybe the Lemans striped car in the foreground is 5S003?

[Side-Oilers]

Note the gunmetal grey Jaguar E-Type parked behind the '56 or '57 VW in the color photo.

[Richstang]

The color photo of the Flip-Top from November '64 is a great one. Not only can we see the different color bricks on the Carter building façade, but also a hint of the curved roof (as seen in the interior photos). Yes, there are no other visible Cobra's in the photo and the Shelby GT350's were not part of the story at that time. What was the bus was for?


The Reventlow Scarab color photo is confusing. I have not been able to figure out where it was taken. I do not believe it was taken at the Carter Ave building as the ground is flat in that area. We see a hint of the raised driveway with some visible bricks at the edge behind the second Scarab. One theory I have is this was taken on the left side of the Princeton Drive building. We can see a slight rise in elevation on the front parking area, yet just to the left of the shrubs there is a parking spot where the Chevy station wagon sits flat on the horizontal (in the Shelby era photos). That would also mean the second floor offices were added later after the Scarab photo was taken. We do see the electric power wires come into the building on that side. Reventlow was only in the Princeton building from about late 1960 to late 1962. I believe he owned the building and leased it to Carroll Shelby.

The big problem with my theory is the office on the second floor and also there is no garage door visible on that side of the building (in the Shelby leased era). I also don't think that land is part of the building property (unless it was a shared driveway prior to Shelby leasing the building).

My only other thought is that the Scarab photo was taken at Reventlow's Culver City shop where he was from working from 1957 through the end of the 1960 season. However that building also did not have those same shapes. It's a mystery we can put aside for this Carter Avenue focused thread if you wish. It's your thread to decide how you want to proceed.

[Side-Oilers]

Rich,

I think you may be correct that the second floor of the building was added after the brick portion existed. The architecture of the upper level appears like it could've been added.

I've been inside the Princeton building and went upstairs to see where CS's office supposedly was.  I realize that a small SAAC group went to the facility at least once in the past 10-15 years, but I was not a part of that.  I talked my way in on my own. 

What was the address of Reventlow's shop in Culver City?  I grew up there and know the town very well.
Van

[Richstang]

I was thinking the added second floor for Princeton was a longshot, especially since the building to the right also has the second floor with the white stucco finish (We can see a hint of the second building in the photo with the 2 white Cobra's above).

Nice effort to get to visit inside the Princeton building! I think Kieth 'SFM66H' was part of the SAAC group visit several years ago.

West Jefferson Blvd. was the street with all the various car builder shops in the 50's - 60's. Here's a photo I found from back in the day (in the rear of the building) with the added street numbers. Also here's a second photo from 2018 of how it look now (in the front of the building). I believe it is basically unchanged.

[Side-Oilers]

Yep, I know that area well. Was unofficially called "Gasoline Alley" by the locals.  And yes, it still looks much the same. My dad worked at nearby Hughes Aircraft, which had some of its original buildings (including where the Spruce Goose was built) saved during the massive redevelopment effort 10 years ago, but most of that giant property is now Google offices and a ton of apartments/condos.

I have some photos from my visit to Princeton, but they are on an old computer, so I will have to try and find them and will post. That was around 2010, when the owners were just starting to remodel that block of buildings. They'd already screwed up the shop portion by putting in a lot of sheetrock walls and interior rooms. Ugh.   

But, in one of their architecture design renderings I saw, they had drawn a Shelby GT350 in one of the front parking places. So, a hat-tip to them for that.

[Szabo]

What an amazing input in this thread ...

Well i just looking over 1000 Photos in this Henry Ford Database and oh my God, i saw pics from all over what
i want to see and now.

Shelby LAX Open House Pics, Carret Avenue Pics from Outside and Inside ( even some Office Pics as well)
and of course the hole Princeton Thing

I must download the hole one and make some more threads about Princeton and LAX (my masterpiece then)


So i truly be thankfull for all the input as the Princeton Building, and please Side-Oiler / Van tell us more about the visit in the Princeton Drive 1042
and inform us in this Thread

But first i will focused on the Carter Avenue Building ( this Scarab Pic is not so importand for this one)

I hopefully later i will post another Photoanlyse from Carter Building and can go outside ..

At all the cost of my nervs, my sleep and a grumpy Wife at all, i have Joy to make this one with
true Facts and give a little of my self in this hole Shelby Mysterie Facts

[Szabo]

Hello,

here wo go again ... and because i found this awesome "Henry Ford" Pics with a
much more cleary Look Inside of Carter Building i will make a little bit fast
forward !!!

Pic 10




The GT350 on the End of the Left Side, standing for this sliding door
(in the Cobar Pics vom HF you will see this is a Sliding Door)


Pic 11



It´s a early at the Day Pic from Car  11 on my skeetch,
the Later "Oil Can" ones standing right from Top Stripe one

Pic 12



one Car from the right row of the 5 Cars standing befor the Windows
i think it is Car 4 on my skeetch

Pic 13



another Car from Window row, i cant find out which one it is

Pic 14 & 15





took me for a while aber i think this Car Nr. 12 from another angle,
the later "Oil Can" Car from another angle

this stake/Pale from Floor to Bottom is behind the Car,
and no other Car ist stand befor it
on the Left Edge of Pic 14 you can see a little bit of the Jacket
from Pic 8 where the Car is jacke up

Pic 16



I look a while on it but it´s a little bit hard for me

I truly think it´s a new GT350 standing behind the mobile Wall
and of course on the right sight on the bricket wall

Pic 17



Last Pic from the GT350 Series i found on the internet

We see two more GT350 an the bricket wall right befor
the End of the production area
between the Spary Booth and Bricket wall




So Guys, i analysed all GT350 Pics i could find on the net at this point
The Garage was pretty full at this point and so it cost me a lot of
time to make the skeetch

But i have found some Pics from the COBRA Production befor GT350 was
starting and this will be my next anlased and making some crosses
between  GT350/COBRA Pics...

Also the COBRA Production was a little bit clearly and so we can find some
more Detaisl

What you think about my Work, any point of critic or maybe you see a
wrong describing

Greets Steve/Stephan

[Grumpy]

WOW ... 

[Szabo]

The front offices don't line up with the back side garage areas. If you look at my (paint program) sketch in reply #4 you will see the street addresses for the façade of the Carter Avenue building. Shelby American Inc. is on the left corner (when viewed from the front of the building on Carter Ave.). The center offices (which appear to be the largest area on the front façade) are the CS Enterprises / Goodyear offices, and I still don't know what was at 3217 on the far right.

The street addresses for the three separate entrances of the Carter Ave building were;
- 3221 'Shelby American Inc. Sales & Finance Office' / Showroom (left)
- 3219 'Carroll Shelby Enterprises Inc.' / 'Goodyear' (center)
- 3217 unknown at this time (right)

It is still possible the smaller second garage area was used as the Goodyear tire warehouse and / or storage, but they just don't line up with the office in front.
Here's a few more photos to help show that more clearly.

Maybe i can help a little bit of your Question for 3217

I found this Pic form a Street Cobra, when you enlarge the right corner you can See 3219 and 3217 on the glass doors,
and on both stands "Shelby American Inc."





What do you mean, i am right ?

Anywhere, what i dont find is a hole Frontside pic ... do you have such one ?

[Szabo]

So, third post on one Day ...   

i just sort by the Cobra Pics

Question: When did Shelby buy the Carter Building Princeton about 1962 1/2, right ?

When I looked at the Pics i focussed on follow thougts:

Cobra production was not so fully loaded like the GT350,
we have much less Neon Lights  and the Cobras are not close standing together

First Pic when we started with a little tour walk,
we stand nearly in the middle of the Room, looking in left Corner at the Brickwall and the
Front Windows, also we see one Gate...



then we look at the right corner with the row of Windows, some Cobras standing at the working platforms



Then wie spin a little bit and look at the Wall after the 5th Window who speperate the Room from the
aera behind ... we see the Sliding Door open and can identified some wood boxes for Engine maybe

When you count the area with Windows and the pillars and count on you will see that are two more such
sections ... (Window 6 and 7 on the outside of the building)



in the middle of the production area are standing the Paint booth Box, looking at left corner you
can also look behind the sliding door to the next area, you see the wood boxes again and some
Gas bottle , so it may not only be a storeage area



a little spin again and after the booth paint box we look again on the area with the brick wall an the partition wall
which are standing some early Cobras in two rowes, some Hood hanging on the wall



i found antoher pic with a Drag Cobra at the same angle and location
look at this Goodyear Trailer 



and the comparison pic with the GT350´s.



last Pic is the Cobra BEFOR the last pic, notice the extinguisher on the dark / red point on the Brick wall.



and the comparison pic with the GT350, look at this Edge of the dark point on wall, this would
be the extinguisher on the pic befor




Unfortunaly i found no pics from behind the sliding door and the "Storage" Area behind the booth Paint box...

Next Step is a closer look at the outside of the Carter Building

So i hope you would like to answer a little bit, what´s your Thoughts about this.

Greets from Germany

[rkm]

This string is crazy great. Looking forward to seeing everyone.

Kim

[Richstang]

With all the help of the Dave Friedman photos I think you have the inside of the Carter Ave building on the production side fairly well covered. Other than the scale of details it seems you have the cars well positioned in your sketch as we see them.

In the Cobra production photos, I noticed the engine stands in the front corner next to the single garage door. The large round painted circle on the brick wall with the fire extinguisher seem to be in more than one place (maybe three (3)?). That was a good idea by whoever set up the shop. I would consider adding the two (2) support posts in the center of the space to your sketch. I think they are centered between the two garage doors, but that would seem to interfere with the entrance to the spray booth. I suspect the spray booth was slightly off center, moved over to the left, closer to the window side wall for easy drive in access.

Finding a whole front view of the Carter Ave building has proven difficult. No luck by me with that task. We still don't know for certain when Shelby moved into Carter Avenue, but I still wonder if it was shortly after he leased 1042 Princeton Drive or at the same time (late August - Early September '62)

I'm not sure how you found the slightly larger photo of the Carter 3219 & 3217 glass doors, but well done. it does appear they both list 'Shelby American Inc.', although it is a bit blurry to read it to be 100% certain. I'd love to know what the writing below the company name said too.

[Szabo]

Hey,

thanks for your comments ...

yeah this David Friedmann Photos and also George Watters are my Heros ...

from the GT350 Pics i dont find it in higher resolution, the Cobra pics are on the Henry Ford Database

I post two more Pics from the "COBRA Production" Time in the Carter building...

yes you are right, on the left front side (standing in the center of the room) are the engine line



and yes on the right side there are first three posts with Cobra on it and we see another fire extingguisher at the opposite
from the one on of the left side



hier you can see it on the "GT350" Pic



i agree with you that the Paint Box are not standing in the middle of the room, it seems that an the Brick wall side is more space at on
the Window row.

the 2 Posts from floor to roof i added on my skeetch



So i will finish the inner side of the Production area, but when anybody find more Details or Insidepics
please inform me ....

To your last question how about i get a larger Pic, i just enlarge the Cobra befor Carter Building Pic directly on the Henry Ford Database
and make a sreen shot. Unfortnaly it getting some more blurry when you downloaded or reloadet.
but maybe you can try it by yourself at your Computer ...

I am a little bit sad that only you answer me a little bit more words... Seems thats not so interresting for community