T-5 Conversion from Aluminum T-10

[Shelby_r_b]

Holy SMOKES!!! 

I just got the car back, and for those thinking of doing the T5 swap, I have three words:  JUST DO IT!!!!

As you'll see from the attached picture, I was doing 70 MPH on the highway at about 2,200 RPMs.  The car just cruises along so nicely.  And, the first 4 gears feel like the original tranny, sans 1st gear; which is now more usable.

Thanks to ALL who have provided input, thoughts, pictures, and moral support.  Again, this is the value of the forum, IMO.

Have a great weekend! 

[sfm6s1506]

Glad you did it. I knew you wouldn't regret it. Have fun 👍

[shelbydoug]

Doug, is the Richmond 5-speed a straight forward, zero mods transplant?

🤔

Maybe I don't want that Hone overdrive after all 😎

Yes with one exception. It uses a Chevy "fine spline" input shaft, so you use a Chevy clutch disc with it. You might want to consider the 6 speed though?

You need to reverse the trans mount also. That's simple, not a big mod. The drive shaft and yoke go back in with no changes.

The 6 speed wasn't available yet when I did mine. It's not as strong being rated for 650hp where the 5 speed is rated for 800.

Also, you want the Ford application. It's 24 inches long. The Chevy version is 22 inches long and you can use it but you'd need to have a longer drive shaft made for it.

I don't know if they still supply it with the friction welded shift cams. If they do, you will need to change those out. Mine are billet chrome molly. I forget who I got those from.

Other then that, it's a nice hefty transmission with t10 type close gears. It literally uses t10 synchros. I don't know about the gears themselves but maybe?


I actually considered the Hone before deciding on the "Nash". There are two Shelbys here with them installed. So I got to see it installed on cars.


The shifter centers well i the factory cut out.

[2112]

This is the latest;

https://www.richmondgear.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/richmond/RG22.pdf

It's overdrive is 23% reduction in RPM

It is certainly stronger than a T5 if it can handle 600lbs of torque. Way more than I will be making.

Are you using a diaphragm style pressure plate or 3-finger?

[shelbydoug]

According to that link, Richmond has completely redone and added offerings. My first gear is 3.26 and 5th is 1:1. I did mine in '82 so obviously it's an earlier version. I'd have to look at the tag to verify the exact first gear ratio. In any case it's a huge difference to the original 2.32 first.

Mine is a direct replacement for the Ford top loader except for the GM style, 26 tooth, fine spine input shaft. It uses the stock bell, drive shaft and 31 spline yoke. All dimensions on the input shaft are Ford dimensions.



As I recall, they introduced a 6 speed around 1985. 6th was overdrive and the transmission was longer then the Ford 24".



I'm using an 11" Centerforce dual friction. That is a diaphram "pressure plate" and mine is literally a Camaro application.

The advantage there is that the Chevy clutch is literally half the price of the Ford. At the time the Chevy clutch was something like $180 and the Ford version $375, or something like that.

This all sounds very complicated but it isn't. It's very simple.



The only part that gets complicated was altering the Hurst shift mechanism to take a Ford shift lever so it looks stock. There was welding done there to attach a small plate to the Hurst so the Ford shifter would bolt on instead of the Hurst lever.

The shift lever is centered in the original hole and uses the original stock small shift boot. No cutting the floor at all for the shift lever.


I would just add, that any 5 speed install in these cars is worthwhile. My decisions were based upon what was available at the time. Obviously things have changed but in a good sense since there are more offerings and more help available.

To anyone who thinks they might like it...you will. You need some courage and of course a couple of bucks as well. Do it. You'll love it and you will never even look back. You will just wonder why it took you so long to change it over?

[SFM6S087]

Question – how low of an rpm is appropriate for a 289hp cruising at 70mph – taking into consideration today's "premium" gas is around 93 octane?

The reason I ask is that I worry about lugging my engine. Because of my free flow exhaust I would never hear pre-detonation pinging if it was happening. So I don't like my engine pulling at less than 2,000 rpm. If the tach gets lower than 2K I downshift.

As far as I can tell these small block Fords don't mind a little reving, but pulling a load at low rpm – I'm not sure. I know that 2,200rpm at 70mph is good for the driver. What about the engine? It might not be as soothing for the driver, but it seems to me that somewhere between 2,600 and 2,800rpm at 70mph would be a good compromise for both engine and driver health.

Am I thinking too deep, or is this an actual concern?

Your thoughts?

Steve

[shelbydoug]

Like any other car, 1,800 to 2,000. You can run these things on regular and they won't ping.

[2112]

Question – how low of an rpm is appropriate for a 289hp cruising at 70mph – taking into consideration today's "premium" gas is around 93 octane?

The reason I ask is that I worry about lugging my engine. Because of my free flow exhaust I would never hear pre-detonation pinging if it was happening. So I don't like my engine pulling at less than 2,000 rpm. If the tach gets lower than 2K I downshift.

As far as I can tell these small block Fords don't mind a little reving, but pulling a load at low rpm – I'm not sure. I know that 2,200rpm at 70mph is good for the driver. What about the engine? It might not be as soothing for the driver, but it seems to me that somewhere between 2,600 and 2,800rpm at 70mph would be a good compromise for both engine and driver health.

Am I thinking too deep, or is this an actual concern?

Your thoughts?

Steve

Easiest solution is to go 75 or 80.   

[Shelby_r_b]

Like any other car, 1,800 to 2,000. You can run these things on regular and they won't ping.

So, to confirm: the RPMs need to be kept above 1,800, is that correct?

And, great question, Steve!

[Shelby_r_b]

For reference, here's a shot of the opening that shows there the front of the shifter is making contact with the floor (I've circled in green). Again, it's a small area, and the cross member went in fine, so the rubber boot doesn't seem to be pinched.

Also, you can see the gold piece that mounts to the top of the shifter and moves the shift lever/handle back about 1 inch to center the lever in the hole. One black nut holds this piece in place, and the bottom has a cutout to fit and sustain the gold piece to the shifter.

[sg66]

Like any other car, 1,800 to 2,000. You can run these things on regular and they won't ping.

So, to confirm: the RPMs need to be kept above 1,800, is that correct?

I did this conversion 30 years ago right before driving 600 miles round trip to SAAC 14 at Pocono. Hipo's don't create a ton of low RPM torque and I've found over the years that anything under 55-60MPH (right around 1800 RPM)and you're better off staying in 4th or even 3rd depending on the road.

By the way, open track at Pocono and shifting from 4th to 5th on the straightaway and seeing the tach drop from 7000 to 4400 is a trip but that's also when you realize 60's aerodynamics don't compare to today's cars

[shelbydoug]

Like any other car, 1,800 to 2,000. You can run these things on regular and they won't ping.

So, to confirm: the RPMs need to be kept above 1,800, is that correct?

And, great question, Steve!

I don't think you will hurt it, you just won't have any power. That's just the lowest you can cruise at practically. That's a big difference from 3,200.

Vinman was working on that number last time I saw him. If you can get it under 1800 then he'sthe one that can do it. Ask Mongo. He'll ask Vinny.

[Shelby_r_b]

Question – how low of an rpm is appropriate for a 289hp cruising at 70mph – taking into consideration today's "premium" gas is around 93 octane?

The reason I ask is that I worry about lugging my engine. Because of my free flow exhaust I would never hear pre-detonation pinging if it was happening. So I don't like my engine pulling at less than 2,000 rpm. If the tach gets lower than 2K I downshift.

As far as I can tell these small block Fords don't mind a little reving, but pulling a load at low rpm – I'm not sure. I know that 2,200rpm at 70mph is good for the driver. What about the engine? It might not be as soothing for the driver, but it seems to me that somewhere between 2,600 and 2,800rpm at 70mph would be a good compromise for both engine and driver health.

Am I thinking too deep, or is this an actual concern?

Your thoughts?

Steve

Easiest solution is to go 75 or 80.   

LOL! I was thinking the same thing. 😜

[pbf777]

     Just for consideration, the original intention by Doug Nash with the 4 + 1 transmission was to permit the use of a lower ratio rear end gear with the greater gear multiplication accomplished with in the gear box and thereby ending with the "direct" in in high gear (5th) vs. the other option of the the inherently weaker overdrive gear set in high gear and more rear gear value, also generally caused to be weaker; and again since driving thru the gear sets in the box, less efficient, with greater heat production within the gear box and the differential.     

     A.K.A. your top speed will be slower in the O.D. trans configuration!     

     Scott.

[Shelby_r_b]

Below is a link to a Mustang Monthly article written in conjunction with MDL about how to do the swap - for those who are interested.  This article shows how to do the swap on an automatic car, and it also shows how to install a hydraulic clutch.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/mump-1111-how-to-install-a-five-speed-transmission

As many of you might know, you have 3 different ways to setup the clutch after the T5 install:
- Mechanical linkage (using the original setup, if you already have a 4-speed car)
- Cable linkage
- Hydraulic clutch

Thanks!