1967 Ten spokes - Identify Original vs. Reproduction

[Bob Gaines]

Adding to this old thread if you guys don't mind to keep it all in one place ,but having some lug nut issues my car is in the shop & apparently I two types of lug nuts on the car mix & matched & there causing play in the wheels .So trying to figure out what I need & shop is having a hard time locating any from there sources ,1st two pics are my wheels I know there gold but I assumed they where original & version 3 on Petes chart ,& JDs pic of the lug But seems to be what I need as it has the cut out for a washer .is there an aftermarket version of that lug I need or are we confused as to what I have & need thanks .

Version 5 on the list . They are tapered which is a plus but have the valve stem in the wrong spot and use the wrong lugnuts when compared to the assemblyline wheels. The picture you post is of a typical aftermarket lug nut. The cut out for the washer is another indication of a non factory after market wheel. The factory wheels lug nuts will not interchange with those after market wheels. The lug nut with the washer is still used on after market wheels . you should not have too much of a problem finding them if you go to a larger wheel selling outlet.  The original ten spoke/69 Shelby lug nut are the ones that are typically hard to find. I try to keep track of who carries the original type lugnuts but don't put any effort into keeping track of the after market version's . If I had a lead on where to look I would share but I don't. With a little effort you should be able to find the aftermarket type with the washer. As mentioned Branda may have some. 

[68krrrr]

Ok thanksI found these on Branda but says it's for 66 you think these are ok the look the same

[Bob Gaines]

Ok thanksI found these on Branda but says it's for 66 you think these are ok the look the same

All I can say for sure is that they look very similar . It is likely that they will work but hard to say without comparing all dimensions. The generic lugnut that you need is likely available at a  larger store selling wheels locally in any larger city. I would try to get them locally so that you can compare plus they will most likely be less expensive.   

[Kent]

I´m not sure anymore with the 67 and 68 wheels. I see different opinions on the 67 and 68 wheels and people that are selling 68 rims as 67 rims. Can someone please verify again what a 67 Wheels makes a 67 Wheels.

It should be clear that the 68 rims had a different finish on the back to clear the 1 piston calipers and they also had this casted in spacer. But exactly these got also claimed as 67´s often here.

Did the 67s ten spoke never had a part number or did the later ones had one? It would be really good to have some more informations about the 67 wheels from verified 67 Shelbys.

Original style 10-spoke Lug nuts 
vs
much later version with shank and washer

'67 10 spoke rear pad, sorry a bit out-of-focus
vs
rear pad that is made to work with '68 caliper

[Bob Gaines]

Kent first off few ,less then 10 68 Shelby's from evidence came equipped with ten spokes used at the beginning of 68 production. Those few cars used the 67 tenspoke wheels. Those 67 wheels unsuccessfully were tried on 68 Shelby's. Only after extensive rework did they clear the calipers of those cars. Calling any of them 68 wheels is not accurate. After 68 Shelby production started and the tenspoke was eliminated as a option was when the incentive for the wheel to evolve by Shelby's wheel company so that it could easily be used with the large single piston caliper. My best guess is that the evolution started later 1968. At least that was when I think those wheels started to appear in the aftermarket. You need to read through all of the posts to get all of the many nuance details of the evolution of the ten spoke from what started as a 67 Shelby wheel. First and foremost if the back side is not rough cast aluminum then it is not a original 67 Shelby wheel. You don't need to go any farther. I have not come across a original 67 Shelby ten spoke wheel that was rough cast on the back side that did not have all of the correct 67 details on the front side. The other later evolution details don't mean a whole lot to me because it is ether a genuine assemblyline wheel or its not. Example- there is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant. You ether are or you are not. Same thing with the wheel, ether it is a genuine assemblyline wheel because of its characteristics or it is not. I have found that the ones trying to split hairs on how close a later wheel is to assemblyline are just trying to justify the non original wheel for monetary or personal reasons. Just my perspective . Others may have a different one.   

[Kent]

Hello Bob, yes I hope the prices will fall on ten spokes as people now know since some years their 68s came with hubcaps. I think we just call them 68 wheels as they were produced to fit on these maybe it would be right to call them "Aftermarket 68 Shelby Wheels". I heard of the problem with the 68 as mentioned in my post and thats why I ask for some definite answers on the real first 67 wheels the 67 Shelbys came with as a lot of people post and sell wheels that are 68 and later aftermarket wheels that will fit like they are on a 68 and so they couldn't be original 67 wheels as they dont fit plug and play on a 68. The pictures from JD are interesting as he shows what he say is a 67 wheel which has not the spacer on the lugs but it also look raised. It would be great to have some more pictures of these rim style to verify it's really a 67 rim.

And yes there were many variables to the later Ten Spokes and in my opinion its very easy to see what is original and what are the later ones.

[shelbydoug]

I think that maybe the dollar value depends on what you think you need?

I have at least 2 types of '67s.

One set has no engineering ID cast into the spokes. That set I bought used about 1973. There were no reproductions in existence then.

IF you look at one of the earlier Shelby Accessories catalogs, printed before 1967 Shelby production, you will see 15x7 10 spokes listed and illustrated.



My SPECULATION on my "naked" set, is that they may be from the "accessory" catalog? Since there were few if any people paying much attention to details like this back then and probably no one knows for sure? But there is no limit on creating speculative stories of how or why these variations occurred back then. I like good Science Fiction stories myself.

The details on them is that 15x7 is cast into the back of one of the spokes, they were cleared over and they take the special lug nuts. Valve stem location is in the expected "production line" location, they do not have the '68 cast in spacers and the insides are natural cast and not machined.

When I got them, and probably the only reason they were sold to me, was that the clear coat was all chipped and was turning yellow and they looked like they were "done".

When I stripped off the clear with "aircraft stripper", I found that the machined surfaces were highly polished, unlike what some describe on the "68" as noticeably machined, and not polished.



I have a second set of what is currently described as '67 10 spokes. The only difference is that they have the engineering number cast in the back of one spoke.

They were also cleared over and I stripped those down also. Those were seemingly polished but not as highly as the "naked" set.



I have a third set that has the cast in spacer. That was made up of individual wheels that I bought independently of each other, and those would tend to agree with what Bob describes as "machined" rather then polished on the highlights.

I've seen these new in Ford boxes and always thought of them as the Ford Service Part. They take the special lug nuts.

Those all were cleared over but with not nearly as thick a coating as the "naked" set had. Those are all cast in spacers and natural cast insides. Valved stem in the rim.



I have additionally two that I bought from Branda. Those are advertised as "reproductions".

They have the cast in spacer, tapered spokes like the originals, similar machined highlights, valve stem in "original" location, and are machined on the interiors.

They take the original Shelby lug nuts. They are not clear coated.



These were necessary because I am using the '69 "Big Ford" 'Trans-am' calipers and rotors and they need as much clearance as you can get, which the extra internal machining "mostly" gives you.


So, so far, that's what "I know" about the 10 spokes or maybe more correctly stated, "what I have experienced" with them.



As it turns out, in investigating the build on my '67 GT500, -03074, the data shows the car was part of a DSO group ordered with 10 spokes. So coincidentally, having this gaggle of wheels of mixed applications, in my case works out, because I definitely have what anyone would now describe as "original '67s" (without the clear coating though).

An interesting question to ask members of this DSO group is what wheels do you have and what do you know about that history of your car? The Registry being what it is, often is just subject to unavailability of that kind of data? It likely would only be of interest to the group of cars in that DSO group.

I had actually found the original owner who purchased the car new from Gotham Ford but the wheels were not on my mind at that moment, on "me bad". The car has an interesting if not colorful history so there were other questions to ask, within a limited amount of time, before the guy hung up.

What I know of Bill Kolb, the original salesman, whatever needed to do to the car to make the sale would have been done, including locking the door and not letting the owner leave until he bought it.
That would include putting any kind of wheels on it...any kind.

[Coralsnake]

Looking at the green chart in reply 27

Should I add a version to the chart

That has tapered spokes, no part number, raised pad, counter sunk lugs and a valve stem on the rim ?

[Coralsnake]

If someone had old Branda catalogs it would be interesting to document their offerings from the 1980s and 1990s

[shelbymann1970]

If someone had old Branda catalogs it would be interesting to document their offerings from the 1980s and 1990s

I believe I might.

[Coralsnake]

If they have any shots of the tenspokes can you pass them on with a date

[Coralsnake]

I found Catalog R from 2012, it was helpful

Maybe some has catalog A ?

Or a pre lettered catalog???

[Coralsnake]

I made a couple of updates

http://www.thecoralsnake.com/spokes.html

[Bob Gaines]

I think one of the most important ten spoke details is missing on the website or maybe I just overlooked it.  That detail is the rough cast finish on the back side of the assemblyline style rim . What do Don's 1969 dated wheels have? I would sure like to see a picture .

[Coralsnake]

I will look to see if I have a photograph