Vintage Racing Images

[shelbydoug]

Any one put a # to the Cobra ? looks like a blue GT350 behind, Herb Caplan in the Corvette.

I think it is CSX 3008?

[6R07mi]

I was watching a youtube interview with Pete Brock and he was explaining CSX2287 at 1964 Spa was the 1st time they put a spoiler on the back end because Phil Hill has broken the lap record but the back end was unloading over the hill and it needed downforce.

If you look at the spoiler here it's obviously hand fabricated with just sheet aluminum and rod braces on the ends, Remington handywork !

All the rest of the 64 FIA season the spoiler is a more finished item.

I hadn't noticed that detail or heard the story. Learned another little factoid

regards,
jim p

[shelbydoug]

I was watching a youtube interview with Pete Brock and he was explaining CSX2287 at 1964 Spa was the 1st time they put a spoiler on the back end because Phil Hill has broken the lap record but the back end was unloading over the hill and it needed downforce.

If you look at the spoiler here it's obviously hand fabricated with just sheet aluminum and rod braces on the ends, Remington handywork !

All the rest of the 64 FIA season the spoiler is a more finished item.

I hadn't noticed that detail or heard the story. Learned another little factoid

regards,
jim p

No. That's the plywood spoiler.

[Richstang]

I have a several photos that Kieth 'SFM66H' and I have exchanged from Spa in May '64. I would think the added spoiler was the direct result of testing at Lemans in April. I'm not sure who that LM test Driver was (anyone know for certain). Perhaps the loose tail end over the hill at Spa was the final straw.

It looks as though the rear spoiler was made of fiberglass. The outer perimeter edge is a lip facing to the back of the car. It appears to be reinforced with a steel rod halfway up horizontally, with a vertical center support steel rod as well. The end struts don't seem to appear initially with the added spoiler. By that race start it looks like it was also added for further support.

[JD]

From page 17 of Phil Henny's Book "Phil Remington - Rem Remembered by his Friends"...

(Note the "dots" across the back of the spoiler look the same as the ones in the image posted above.)

Note 2 - the text is from Pete Brock's section of Remembering Phil Remington.

[Richstang]

THANKS JD!

That explains everything, the four sections, the rod supports, the screws, and the rearward facing lip.
Kieth probably told me that story a few years ago, but I forgot.

[shelbydoug]

The first picture is 1/2" plywood. I've worked with it enough over the last 50 years to recognize it.

What it has is a layer of fiberglass cloth which is attaching it to the rear deck "foot". This is what you would make the original form from.

Likely a mold was made from this and the most expedient way to create a useful if not "finished" piece would be to "cast it" from fiberglass mat.

Remember, these guys were "on the road" and working out of a rented garage somewhere or maybe even out in the open under the stars. High tech facilities were a little lacking under those circumstances.

It was just a race car. Functionality was what mattered. The finished results weren't exactly going into the Louvre?

[6R07mi]

I have a several photos that Kieth 'SFM66H' and I have exchanged from Spa in May '64. I would think the added spoiler was the direct result of testing at Lemans in April. I'm not sure who that LM test Driver was (anyone know for certain). Perhaps the loose tail end over the hill at Spa was the final straw.

The story as I recall was Jo Schlesser had escaped the wreck of GT/101 unharmed after posting a best time of 4:21, and was standing around the pits where the Coupe was inactive because the team was still down at the Targa Florio.
Jo asked if he could take it out and after Carroll was consulted he took his first laps in the coupe and recorded a 4:02 for the fasted GT+5.0 time.
The Circuit de la Sarthe doesn't have the sharp elevation changes like Spa and the rear-end didn't get as loose, but Jo did note when at top speed on the Mulsane the rear was light.
According to Brock he had been advocating with Remington a spoiler was needed but Phil wasn't convinced yet, until the event at Spa with Phil Hill.

this is not a attempt to state a historical fact just my recollection of various source accounts!

regards,
jim p

[honker]

RE: Le Mans April '64 tests, in the Cobra Ferrari Wars book, it says that both Schlesser & Phil Hill drove CSX 2287, and both turned "moderate" laps, no times are given.

In the Time and Two Seats book, it says that at the April test,  Schlesser turned a 4:02.3 as stated by 6R07mi above. there is no mention of Phil Hill driving.

Also not an attempt to state a historical fact, but what I found in those two books.

Mike

[honker]

Found some more info re: CSX 2287 at Le Mans tests, April '64.

Phil Hill did 4:20.7, big difference from Schlesser's 4:02.3, maybe Hill wasn't comfortable with the car ? it was wet and cold.

That info and the  two pics I've included are from a French forum I frequent.

Mike

sorry if the photos are large, new system on my computer that I haven't worked around yet !

[Richstang]

Found some more info re: CSX 2287 at Le Mans tests, April '64.

Phil Hill did 4:20.7, big difference from Schlesser's 4:02.3, maybe Hill wasn't comfortable with the car ? it was wet and cold.

That info and the  two pics I've included are from a French forum I frequent.

Mike

sorry if the photos are large, new system on my computer that I haven't worked around yet !

The two added photos are terrific...and both are new to me! (We like them larger when possible.) Thanks for sharing them!
Great info on the lap times and the noted differences. The blurry photo posted show a tail spray coming off the car, so it might be likely that was reason for the big time differences between Phil Hill and Jo Schlesser

I have a several photos that Kieth 'SFM66H' and I have exchanged from Spa in May '64. I would think the added spoiler was the direct result of testing at Lemans in April. I'm not sure who that LM test Driver was (anyone know for certain). Perhaps the loose tail end over the hill at Spa was the final straw.

The story as I recall was Jo Schlesser had escaped the wreck of GT/101 unharmed after posting a best time of 4:21, and was standing around the pits where the Coupe was inactive because the team was still down at the Targa Florio.
Jo asked if he could take it out and after Carroll was consulted he took his first laps in the coupe and recorded a 4:02 for the fasted GT+5.0 time.
The Circuit de la Sarthe doesn't have the sharp elevation changes like Spa and the rear-end didn't get as loose, but Jo did note when at top speed on the Mulsane the rear was light.
According to Brock he had been advocating with Remington a spoiler was needed but Phil wasn't convinced yet, until the event at Spa with Phil Hill.

this is not a attempt to state a historical fact just my recollection of various source accounts!

regards,
jim p

Thanks for adding this story Jim. it appears to link my previous thought about LM testing and practice at SPA. It fills in some more pieces.
The attached photo was noted as Jo Schlesser driving.

[honker]

Here's a pretty beat looking Cobra, look at the camber on that front wheel    this is at St. Jovite, in Quebec, not sure of the year.

[honker]

Dan Gurney & Bruce Mclaren's Eagle T1Gs, French GP '67. In my mind the prettiest Grand Prix cars ever !

Was there any interaction between Shelby's race program and Gurney's F1 program at that time ?

Mike

[Tom Honegger]

Agreed. From the paint scheme, Eagle nose and wheels...best looking F1 car ever.

[honker]

Mercury     My notes on this screen grab, say this is at the '70 Can-Am race at Road Atlanta, my first thought was the Ford G7A, but not with those valve covers !