Ram Box

[TA22 (Gary Goeringer)]

nice shots Earl  !!!!

[67GT500#1594]

Nice find!! WOW!! I have one myself with both tops. I'm not too sure I've ever heard there were 1000 made? Not disputing that but in the SBF world I've only ever seen a handful and only three in person. I've always heard they are quite rare and most that bought them could not get them to run properly and gave up on them. I've just completed my 2 carb setup with help from Drew Pojedinec. Hopefully this set up will work out! I'm excited to try!

I know Mark Hipp's 65 #170 car well and he's definitely figured out how to make a Ram Box run!! It pulls so hard from 3800 all the way to 8200 RPM's!! It never runs out!!

[Side-Oilers]

That looks cool as hell.

[rcgt350]

I concur too! It's just screaming Drive Me!
Very nice.

[SFM5S000]

I've always heard they are quite rare and most that bought them could not get them to run properly and gave up on them. I've just completed my 2 carb setup with help from Drew Pojedinec. Hopefully this set up will work out! I'm excited to try!

Hello 67 GT500#1594,

You may want to revisit the position and mounting of the Drivers side Carburetor on your setup. The dual 8V top was designed to have the driver's side carb mounted backwards. As you can see the dips (clearance notches oriented in the center) (see pic, top is upside down in photo) for the carb levers and linkage.
The reason is (as designed) the passenger side carb's primary venturies will feed the forward cylinders. When mounted correctly, the drivers' side venturies will feed the back half of the cylinders. The inside of the manifold is like a giant bath tub. (see pics).
Unlike the single 4V arrangement, That top has distribution walls (see pic) to evenly distribute air/fuel mixture.
Attempting to run your setup as is, you will experience lean conditions on the back half and erratic surges once you open the secondary's.
The linkage assembly should run in between the two (2) carburetors. Passenger linkage rod should "pull",  the driver's side linkage rod should "push". (see pic, rod lengths are short in pic for discussion reasons)
I thought to inform you so to avoid a future headache.

Cheers,
~Earl J

[gt350hr]

   Thanks Earl , you saved me the post. You are absolutely correct that the D/S carb MUST be mounted backwards! This manifold has offset carburetors unlike other crossrams made "in the day". The engine will run horribly if they are both facing forward even with "center squirter" carbs. Great catch.
   Randy

[SFM5S000]

I know Mark Hipp's 65 #170 car well and he's definitely figured out how to make a Ram Box run!! It pulls so hard from 3800 all the way to 8200 RPM's!! It never runs out!!

Speaking of Mark Hipp's car, being a race car (I'm sure it gets photographed too) I decided to post it. It's a very tidy setup.
On the other hand, here is a setup on a 66 GT350 #15xx with the dual carb arrangement set up correctly. I understand why he used the side hung bowls. I'm assuming to clear the Monte Carlo Bar, as any other bowl wouldn't clear it. Not crazy about his choice in ignition but to each his own.

~Earl J

[67GT500#1594]

Thanks Earl for the heads up. Yes, it is currently mounted "backwards". There's been a lot of thought put into this one and many reasons for doing what I doing. I agree that there is a chance of fuel starvation by mounting the carb forward but I won't know until a dyno test can confirm this. I've discussed this with MANY different individuals each experienced with this exact set up. My choice of LeMans bowls complicates things somewhat. They're definitely harder to set up the float levels. The WOW factor plays into this for sure.

Honestly, the dyno will be the proof. I'm not convinced that back when these were designed for anything else but pure drag racing with zero street manors. The carbs they chose were way too much carburetion for a 289/302. Now I think we can agree 465 cfm X 2 is way too much. Hipp's race car runs a 750 cfm with a 850 baseplate. He's car is amazingly perfect in every way with a lot of other well thought out improvements! One of the finest pure examples of a real period correct vintage race car. So based on the photos, what carbs do you think I've had built for this project. I plan on building either a 331 or 347 with aluminum heads for my 66 Fastback. I'm hopeful that this project will work and be super unique. With better heads, larger cubes, and better balanced carbs this will work.

I'll give you a hint, their NOT 715 cfm's...

[gt350hr]

    Respectfully , 465s are TOO little . The plenum area is so large that two small carburetors can't fill it fast enough ! You WILL find this out on the dyno so be sure and bring some bigger carbs and jets. The manifold was not designed strictly for drag racing. The manifold WAS designed by Ford engineers based on the Chevrolet Z-28 intake. Yes it will respond to more cubic inches and certainly better flowing heads than what I ran in the day. ( C6FEs). I'll leave the rest up to you.
   Randy

[shelbydoug]

    Respectfully , 465s are TOO little . The plenum area is so large that two small carburetors can't fill it fast enough ! You WILL find this out on the dyno so be sure and bring some bigger carbs and jets. The manifold was not designed strictly for drag racing. The manifold WAS designed by Ford engineers based on the Chevrolet Z-28 intake. Yes it will respond to more cubic inches and certainly better flowing heads than what I ran in the day. ( C6FEs). I'll leave the rest up to you.
   Randy

Randy. Sometimes there are "clues" as to what the thinking was on the original design. Knowing that it likely would need to be changed or thinking modified, I don't think that was ever a stumbling block to get a design on a dyno.

Do you have any indication of what the "first best guess" of carb size was thought to be?

I'd take a guess and say a pair of 700's and the only question would be double pumpers of vac secondaries?

Just curious as to what you think size wise on this set-up?

[SFM5S000]

Doug, I recall reading somewhere (I have it in my office, I'll see if I can dig it up) calling for two 600 CFM double pumpers in the 8V arrangement if my memory servers me correctly. I could be wrong but that's what I remember.

~E

[shelbydoug]

That's around what I am thinking too Earl? Let's face it, it was never intended for a street production option.

Engineering of the final details would be as always left up to the dyno team, be it a butt dyno or a real machine.

Although folks like Bud Moore got these things to more then  just work, my limit for exotic induction is limited to my 2x4 Holley T/A and my IR 48 ida's.

My limited intellectual capacity pretty much just leaves me there and also it's for me the limit of my "practical" application ability? Thanks for the input. The ram box is an interesting subject.

[gt350hr]

  The intended carburetors were indeed 600cfm. Double pumpers were not "invented" yet (1969 creation)  List # 1850 was what Shelby recommended. "Center squirters" were the race carburetor choice. They were developed in '66.
  Randy

[TA22 (Gary Goeringer)]

Tony Oddo Sr/Jr @ TOE Performance have successfully used 390 cfm carbs on their race engines using this manifold.  In fact, he still has my dual carb ram box manifold as we were planning on building a engine specific for use on longer tracks like Road America....... but I sold the car prior to building it.

[gt350hr]

  I forgot about yours Gary . Yes Tony was able to get the 390 mechanical secondary carbs to work for you.  Tony is very sharp on carburetion !