Factory A/C ?

[oldcanuck]

Of course the Marti Report doesn't show it, but now that I have a copy of the Ford dealer's original sales order to the original owner of my GT-350, the buyer was charged $299.00 for factory FoMoCo a/c. My question is, is a dealer installed option prior to the original buyer taking possession of his new GT-350, considered just an add on, or is it a legitimate option ?   Kind of like most radios being dealer installed ?

Thanks,
BG

[Coralsnake]

Well its not "factory" AC. It may be a factory style system. True factory AC usually involves more than just the AC unit, like a change in spring rates and changes in rear axle ratio.

I guess the value depends on what a future owners likes or dislikes? Personally, I would consider it an add on. But, I am not sure what an illigitimate option is. 🤔

[roddster]

  Tough question.  But, the firewall is different between the non-A/C cars and the factory A/C cars.  So, what does it look like where the refridgerant hoses and the heater hoses come through the firewall?

[Richstang]

Hey Bob,

Your car was not in a DSO group built at San Jose with A/C (or the AM radio).
If you have dealer paperwork from when new showing they added the A/C it's certainly more than just an owner added option, even if it's not factory.
Very interesting and odd at the same time...considering your car was sold out of Frontier Ford in Niagara Falls NY and not someplace really hot like AZ.

(While many '67 Shelby AM radio's were not installed at Ford's San Jose factory, many were added by SAI before shipping to the selling dealer. I've started tracking that info, but need to collect more SAI PO's (production orders) to see how they add up.)

[Bob Gaines]

  Tough question.  But, the firewall is different between the non-A/C cars and the factory A/C cars.  So, what does it look like where the refridgerant hoses and the heater hoses come through the firewall?

Dealer add on A/C for 67 is similar to how the 65/66 Mustangs were done. It was typically a underdash self contained unit installed hanging under the dash in the place where the Amp/Alt gauges go. In the case of the hang on unit the refrigerant lines came out in a different location on the fire wall then the IN dash unit. The dealer add on hang on A/C can be seen as impractical on a Shelby is why those that want to add A/C retrofit a factory in dash unit into their car . Of course if someone had reasonable proof like dealer paperwork of install prior to the first owner taking delivery of the car when new then it would be given a pass in concours venues regardless of if Hang On or Indash. In the case of no back up or when added after delivery then a hang on unit would still be a interesting foot note in the cars history but not considered factory . I saw one once and the Amp/Oil gauges were relocated to the steering column like a Rally Pac? It sure looked unflattering IMO.

[Bob Gaines]

Of course the Marti Report doesn't show it, but now that I have a copy of the Ford dealer's original sales order to the original owner of my GT-350, the buyer was charged $299.00 for factory FoMoCo a/c. My question is, is a dealer installed option prior to the original buyer taking possession of his new GT-350, considered just an add on, or is it a legitimate option ?   Kind of like most radios being dealer installed ?

Thanks,
BG

It would be interesting to see the paperwork and if it said "factory" A/C or the just A/C. The word "factory" would be unusual terminology regardless of install prior to the customer taking delivery or after delivery as I suspect. The factory style dash would require taking the entire dash apart to replace and install all of the components and wiring needed to make the switch. The engine side would be more straight forward however would still take time to install. The labor involved and the parts needed for the switch would exceed a 299.00 price tag even by 1967 standards I highly suspect. Also It would not be typical for a Ford dealer service department to have the technical know how to pull off retrofit in dash AC installation given it is highly unusual and costly. 

[oldcanuck]

Just to be clear, the a/c system is not an under dash add on system, it is the same in dash FoMoCo system that you would see on a factory a/c car.  The second owner also confirmed the a/c was in the car when he purchased from the original owner, and when he sold to the third owner in CA. The 3rd owner removed it and it was in the trunk when I purchased. The second owner has pictures as well.

Yes the car was sold new at Frontier Ford in Niagara Falls NY, but the original owner took the car to their winter home in Tallahassee FL. The original dealer sales order also showed the buyer as a FL customer.  It just lists a/c and $299.- on the dealer inventory card which is added into the final price bring the total to $4702.78

[Bob Gaines]

Just to be clear, the a/c system is not an under dash add on system, it is the same in dash FoMoCo system that you would see on a factory a/c car.  The second owner also confirmed the a/c was in the car when he purchased from the original owner, and when he sold to the third owner in CA. The 3rd owner removed it and it was in the trunk when I purchased. The second owner has pictures as well.

Yes the car was sold new at Frontier Ford in Niagara Falls NY, but the original owner took the car to their winter home in Tallahassee FL. The original dealer sales order also showed the buyer as a FL customer.  It just lists a/c and $299.- on the dealer inventory card which is added into the final price bring the total to $4702.78

If you went into the dealer and asked to add A/C to you 67 for 299.00 you would get the hang on unit. Not disputing what is in the car now but it is unlikely IMO that that a  in dash AC system was what the dealer installed back in the day because of the logistics . Can you imagine the parts guy trying to order or even trying to figure out what to order? It didn't come as a complete kit like the hang on units did. That let alone for 299.00 all  installed. Given the unlikelihood of the in dash style add on expect push back when entering a concours event or convincing a knowledgeable Mustang /Shelby enthusiast IMO without further proof given the facts. Of course this is just from a historical stand point . From a practical standpoint I would rather have a after the fact in dash AC then the hang on or even a modern after market unit any day of the week if I had to choose.That is regardless of if it came that way or not. Just trying to give some historical perspective/opinion. Others may have a different opinion.

[J_Speegle]

Adding AC at the dealer would also mean that the service department would have to figure out where to move the underdash gauges to

Agree that a new owner wanting AC on a non-AC car would either have to take their chances finding another 67 Shelby with the option or settle on the underdash/add on AC. Another possibility is that the dealer could make a couple of bucks on the deal and save his workers some grief by subbing the job out to the Sears down the street who did allot of add on AC's in the 60's

[67_1183]

I saw one once and the Amp/Oil gauges were relocated to the steering column like a Rally Pac? It sure looked unflattering IMO.

Adding AC at the dealer would also mean that the service department would have to figure out where to move the underdash gauges to

Indeed.

I have attached pics of gauges moved to steering column and top of dash pad.  No disrespect to the the owners, just showing the choices made to add the underdash AC.

[oldcanuck]

Guys,

I am getting this from the second owner of the car, who was a good friend of the original owner in Tallahassee. He had dibbs on the car in 1969.

He is saying the car was delivered by Frontier Ford with in dash a/c, which is the way he also purchased and sold later on.

He has supplied me with pictures, which contain plenty of evidence to what he is conveying to me. These pictures were supplied to him by the original owner after he had purchased the car.

Additionally, the Ford dealer's inventory card attached to the dealer sales order shows the following breakdown;

   Shelby American GT-350  $3995.00
   Power disc brakes                 64.77
   Shoulder harness                  50.76
   Power steering                      84.47
   Fold-down Rear seat              64.77
   Radio                                   57.51
   Freight                                 86.50
   Air                                      299.00
                           Total        $4702.78

I'm sorry about the picture quality, but these as you can expect are scans of old photographs.

[Richstang]

Thanks for adding some photos of your car. Hopefully you've sent a nice photo to Dave for the upcoming new registry.
Do you know how old are these photos are that you've posted?

The prices you've noted are the suggested retail prices noted by SAI.

Shelby American charged dealers $292.06 for factory equipped A/C with a suggested the retail at $356.09.
It is surprising the dealer wouldn't charge at least that MSRP to help offset their costs to add A/C.

[Bob Gaines]

Guys,

I am getting this from the second owner of the car, who was a good friend of the original owner in Tallahassee. He had dibbs on the car in 1969.

He is saying the car was delivered by Frontier Ford with in dash a/c, which is the way he also purchased and sold later on.

He has supplied me with pictures, which contain plenty of evidence to what he is conveying to me. These pictures were supplied to him by the original owner after he had purchased the car.

Additionally, the Ford dealer's inventory card attached to the dealer sales order shows the following breakdown;

   Shelby American GT-350  $3995.00
   Power disc brakes                 64.77
   Shoulder harness                  50.76
   Power steering                      84.47
   Fold-down Rear seat              64.77
   Radio                                   57.51
   Freight                                 86.50
   Air                                      299.00
                           Total        $4702.78

I'm sorry about the picture quality, but these as you can expect are scans of old photographs.

Hopefully the dealer inventory card is genuine. We have seen forged versions to justify out of the ordinary claims before. As previous discussed the 299.00 price does not justify the parts and labor to take out the old and put in the multitude of different Ford in dash components along with the logistics of sourcing them given they would have to be individually identified and ordered. The pictures do show evidence but not the kind of evidence you were hoping for. Yes one picture shows a in dash AC however it also shows a personalized wrapped steering wheel that dose not help in establishing a as delivered time frame for the dash. The next picture of the engine on the other hand shows quite a few most likely owner modifications like spark plug wires ,distributor cap ,wrong air filter element ,after market aircleaner assembly and the like . At the very least 7-10,000 for that many miles to necessitate those items replacement after delivery. The AC components seen in the pictures are the hang on air parts . The style of refrigerant lines ,line valves ,condenser ,dryer and associated mounting hardware indicate as such . They are a generic in nature designed to be used in various applications with the substitution of brackets and such.They are quite a bit different in appearance compared to the assemblyline or even service Mustang parts. I have had quite a few of the kits over the years purchased at swap meets for some of the parts they contained . The mid firewall refrigerant line placement in that same picture as well as the next picture with the engine out establishes the AC unit as the hang on type. The factory in dash unit would only have the refrigerant lines coming out at the far passenger side where the in dash evaporator core sits. The hang on units self contains evaporator core is mounted mid way across the under the dash and consequently has it's refrigerant lines exiting mid way across the firewall as the picture shows. Needless to say that the engine out of the car also establishes a case of a highly worked on car and not anything suggesting untouched as delivered pictures. This evidence confirms the hang on unit install and contradicts the here say accounts of past owners. This would not be the first time a past owner gets it wrong whether because of a faulty memory or embellished the truth to justify out of the ordinary parts . I suppose he could have forgotten the hang on dash. You would think the engine compartment photos would have jogged his memory but then again he might not be aware of the story those pictures tell. 

[oldcanuck]

Rich,

Yes I have supplied Dave with some updated recent pictures of the exterior for the new registry. Nothing was said about any interior pictures needed ?

The photos from Merlin Mitchell the second owner are late '70s to early '80s he believes. He purchased the car in early '88 from the original owner finally after waiting 21 years.

Thanks,
Bob

[oldcanuck]

Bob,

What you are seeing, is what Frontier Ford installed for Charlie McNabb in 1967  for air at an invoiced cost of $299.00 per the second owner and good friend Merlin Mitchell. He does recall that the air was a last minute change while making the deal due to the fact that they were taking the car to their FL home.

I have no reason to doubt Merlin or the pictures and original dealer paperwork that was presented to him by Mr. McNabb.

Who knows why Frontier only charged $299.00 ?   Maybe they had that factored in on the $1800.- trade of his wife's '65 2+2 Fastback ?  I don't know, I wasn't there. 

But back to my original question, does dealer air installed,  prior to delivery, help in anyway ? I assumed that since Frontier was a Ford dealer, they would have been using Ford factory replacement parts since it was in dash.......that one is on me.

BG