Factory A/C ?

[Coralsnake]

Following along...I am going to take you at your word, everything was installed by the Ford dealer.

I think your question is does it add value to the car?  Probably not.

The factory 4spd cars will likely remain the most valuable,  however the difference in price isnt usually that significant from the others. At best you are not going to realize all of that difference.

[oldcanuck]

Following along...I am going to take you at your word, everything was installed by the Ford dealer.

I think your question is does it add value to the car?  Probably not.

The factory 4spd cars will likely remain the most valuable,  however the difference in price isnt usually that significant from the others. At best you are not going to realize all of that difference.

Thank you very much..... I just wanted to know the difference between a factory installed option, and a dealer installed option ....... its really not a big deal for me, as the 3rd owner removed the a/c and now I have it packed away in boxes along with some other componentry that was packed away in the trunk on its shipping journey from So Cal to TN.

I could post scans of the dealer paperwork, but to be honest, it was all stapled together just one time probably by the Ford dealer, and I'd like to keep it that way.

BG

[oldcanuck]

Shelby American charged dealers $292.06 for factory equipped A/C with a suggested the retail at $356.09.
It is surprising the dealer wouldn't charge at least that MSRP to help offset their costs to add A/C.

Rich,

I was not there...... I do know that Marjorie's '65 2+2 burgundy 289 auto Fastback was the trade involved  in the sale, and she and Charlie told the dealer that they would like to have air, due to them taking this car to their FL home in Tallahassee for obvious reasons. Isn't conceivable that in the heat of the negotiations, to sell a new '67 GT-350, can't you just see the Frontier Ford sales mgr calling the parts mgr to find out what their cost was on air, so he could throw that in to make the deal happen. Like none of us has ever seen a dealer do that.

Bob

[CSX 4133]

Bob,

You have a unique Shelby regardless, the fact you've preserved it's history adds to it's future value down the road.

~Steven

[Richstang]

Rich,

Yes I have supplied Dave with some updated recent pictures of the exterior for the new registry. Nothing was said about any interior pictures needed ?

The photos from Merlin Mitchell the second owner are late '70s to early '80s he believes. He purchased the car in early '88 from the original owner finally after waiting 21 years.

Thanks,
Bob

Hi Bob,
If you sent Dave a good exterior photo that is likely all he needs for the new upcoming registry. Their goal is to include a photo of each car.
Thanks for dating your posted photos noted from the 2nd owner. 21 years is a long wait!
Rich

[Richstang]

Shelby American charged dealers $292.06 for factory equipped A/C with a suggested the retail at $356.09.
It is surprising the dealer wouldn't charge at least that MSRP to help offset their costs to add A/C.

Rich,

I was not there...... I do know that Marjorie's '65 2+2 burgundy 289 auto Fastback was the trade involved  in the sale, and she and Charlie told the dealer that they would like to have air, due to them taking this car to their FL home in Tallahassee for obvious reasons. Isn't conceivable that in the heat of the negotiations, to sell a new '67 GT-350, can't you just see the Frontier Ford sales mgr calling the parts mgr to find out what their cost was on air, so he could throw that in to make the deal happen. Like none of us has ever seen a dealer do that.

Bob

Bob,
Thanks for detailing some of the info you gathered on the original sale. As you said, none of us were there so we'll never know exactly what transpired.
Getting back to your original question, I'm not sure the dealer added A/C will add much value, but since your car is a 4-spd that certainly will in todays world.
Rich

[oldcanuck]

Steven / Rich,

Thank you both.... I appreciate it.

I guess I should have started off with the dealer installed am/fm radio, rather than the a/c .......!!

Finally getting in contact with the second owner, and him supplying everything that he has sent me got me a little jazzed up.


Bob

[oldcanuck]

Here is a scan of the dealer paperwork, consisting of the orange Inventory Card, on top of the pink Invoice, on top of the yellow Retail Car Order stapled together.

Total selling price was $4702.78 less the trade 1807.78 (mentioned previously) for a cash due on delivery total of $2895.00

No where on the Invoice or Retail Car Order does it break down the costs of the individual options, other than the Inventory card. They both state Total Selling Price of $4702.78 only.

Note... no sales tax for out of state, non-resident buyer from FL, and coincidentally the Marti Report shows 02597 sold for $4403.78 which is exactly a $299.00 difference.

BG

[Bob Gaines]

Bob,

What you are seeing, is what Frontier Ford installed for Charlie McNabb in 1967  for air at an invoiced cost of $299.00 per the second owner and good friend Merlin Mitchell. He does recall that the air was a last minute change while making the deal due to the fact that they were taking the car to their FL home.

I have no reason to doubt Merlin or the pictures and original dealer paperwork that was presented to him by Mr. McNabb.

Who knows why Frontier only charged $299.00 ?   Maybe they had that factored in on the $1800.- trade of his wife's '65 2+2 Fastback ?  I don't know, I wasn't there. 

But back to my original question, does dealer air installed,  prior to delivery, help in anyway ? I assumed that since Frontier was a Ford dealer, they would have been using Ford factory replacement parts since it was in dash.......that one is on me.

BG

I must not be clear enough. The dealer evidence of work done is not in dispute. At least not by me. Whether it was a in dash AC or under dash unit as what would be typical is in dispute by me. The pictures you supplied indicate that a under dash AC unit was what was installed at one time and not a in dash type system as you seem to think was done.  Under dash unit is what dealers would typically install and not a factory in dash unit. I am not disputing what is in the car now. I am resistant to perpetuating a unlikely dealer installed in dash scenario based on the evidence that shoes a under dash unit was installed.                                                                                                                                                 
       As to dealer installed options they typically don't add market value unless desirable by others but they are interesting parts of the cars history. As to your question If the added features are accepted as factory then they are if you have reasonable documentation that the option was dealer added before the first customer took delivery.  In the case of a under dash AC I believe it would be perceived as a negative by most . I think that whoever did it made the right choice of replacing the under dash unit with one that looks factory. Based on the picture evidence think the in dash modifacation was done by a past owner.

[CharlesTurner]

If the hang-on unit was used, would there be extra holes required on the bottom edge of the dash?  In 65-66, there were existing holes, but since 67 would have been integral air, maybe the holes were not there?

Also, if the hang-on unit was used, the hoses would not typically be routed the same as integral A/C... Any signs of filled holes in the firewall?  Typically they would be in the 65-66 location, 10" or so above the accelerator crank assy.

Same thing with dryer/condenser installation on the radiator support... usually holes not in the same location.

[Bob Gaines]

If the hang-on unit was used, would there be extra holes required on the bottom edge of the dash?  In 65-66, there were existing holes, but since 67 would have been integral air, maybe the holes were not there?

Also, if the hang-on unit was used, the hoses would not typically be routed the same as integral A/C... Any signs of filled holes in the firewall?  Typically they would be in the 65-66 location, 10" or so above the accelerator crank assy.

Same thing with dryer/condenser installation on the radiator support... usually holes not in the same location.

Charles review the photos that past owner provided to current owner. You can see the refrigerant lines coming out the center of the firewall. That confirms the hang on air installation. 

[oldcanuck]

Guys,

I can tell you that there are what appears to be 2 large a/c brass fittings in/through the firewall right in front of the passenger in what looks to be right behind the glove box.

Also, the previous interior dash picture has been confirmed by the second owner the this picture predates his purchasing the car..... so the original owner took that picture. He also stated that is exactly the way it was when the original owner sold the car, and also when he sold the car to the third owner in San Diego.

When it warms up, I'll peel back the cover and try and get a clear picture.

Thanks,
BG

[Bob Gaines]

Guys,

I can tell you that there are what appears to be 2 large a/c brass fittings in/through the firewall right in front of the passenger in what looks to be right behind the glove box.

Also, the previous interior dash picture has been confirmed by the second owner the this picture predates his purchasing the car..... so the original owner took that picture. He also stated that is exactly the way it was when the original owner sold the car, and also when he sold the car to the third owner in San Diego.

When it warms up, I'll peel back the cover and try and get a clear picture.

Thanks,
BG

Yes there would have to be lines there NOW what with the currently installed in dash system.  The previous vintage picture's confirm the mid firewall refrigerant lines used with the under dash installation . The fact that the lines came out midway across the firewall in the past confirms that in the past a under dash unit was used. Given that vintage picture evidence some one obviously took that under dash system out to install the current factory style in dash system. Let me be clear I think the current in dash system looks much better and I would not suggest changing it . I do not think it effects the cars looks or value in a negative way. The current in dash system however was not the system that the dealer installed back in the day based on the evidence.

[Bossbill]

I've collected a LOT of Ford built in A/C parts in order to retrofit a system into my son's 67 GTA.
As Bob noted, the center of firewall A/C lines do not square with a factory built-in system.

Here is the original picture blown up, the firewall on my 67 (to show the A/C heater hose knockouts) and a pic of the heater/evaporator case.

The original firewall picture shows two heater lines coming out of the usual heater holes in the firewall (red dots). If fitted with a factory-style A/C evaporator case this routing would be impossible (see evaporator case pic).
Also, the picture shows the A/C lines (green) going to/from the evaporator. This location would simply not line up with a factory evaporator case. And it would make no sense to make new holes in the center of firewall if you already have the outlets available in the old heater blower hole.

As shown in the evaporator case picture all of the required lines come through the firewall in the vacated blower motor area and in the knockout for the new location of the heater water lines. The firewall cutout areas are roughly marked in red on the case.

[oldcanuck]

Thanks Bill for your embellishment of the picture.

Yes I can see it now. Apparently the second owner must have been mistaken. Unfortunately I was not there, but I wish I was. The only thing that could have possibly happen is the original owner had the dealer installed a/c updated/changed if it didnt keep up with the FL heat.... who knows.

I am attaching pics of the a/c fittings in the firewall as it is today. I capped them just to keep junk out, since the a/c components are boxed up.

Thanks.