110 Octane Sunoco ?

[shelbydoug]

So ideally for my stock 10.5 / 1 SB..... adding some type of lead additive is best for 93 pump gas rather than an octane booster ?  Anybody recommend a good product ? 

As always, thanks in advance.

Be advised that an advertised 10.5:1 289 isn't. If you measure and calculate the ratio, you will see it's actually about 9.5:1. That's one reason they will run fine on pump regular.

An actual 10.5:1 289 is going to be tough to start hot on a stock starter.

[The Going Thing]

I don't run leaded fuel. There are a lot of myths circulating about leaded fuel.  The compression and lack of overlap with stock cams raises static compression which necessitates premium fuels to avoid detonation and engine damage.   

[Rickmustang]

VP sells Muscle Car Fuel. Leaded, stabil, and 95 octane.

[The Going Thing]

Most of the specialty fuels here are VP or Conoco.  110 being the most common.  In So Ca I was on staff at Chino Air Museum. You could fill five-gallon containers, or your vehicle with the 100 octane aviation fuel much less expensively than any race fuels. There was a Philips 66 station that also had 100 at the pumps back in the '90s.  I miss the simple times.

[gt350hr]

  10-25% 110 race gas or 100LL av gas is usually cheaper than and better than "octane boosters". Be SURE you need it first. I did some drag strip testing on my 408W in my daily driver '67 Ranchero. I had tuned it on the engine dyno for use with 87 octane before installing it in the car. Took it to the local 1/8th mile strip and ran 8.0s or about 12.4 1/4. Went back the following week with 91 ( near identical weather conditions and track prep. Slowed down to 8 teens and lost 2 mph.  Went back the following week with 87 again and was back to 8.0s. Could I have tuned around it? Maybe but there was obviously no need for more octane in my case. Now in the case my GT350 with it's 11.5cr drag race only engine I wouldn't think of anything less than 110.
    Randy

[427heaven]

Here's the down side to running AV GAS. While it does have a higher octane rating your car wont perform any better. Your car wont rattle and knock, but it wont run like a scalded dog either. I used to fill up at all the local airports back in the day for so called street race enhancement fluid. One day I went with a buddy for some DYNO time I thought what a waste of money. A little shop from the way back machine was BOB JENNINGS dyno service, and in this shop were some big hitters in the SO CAL racing scene. I was proud to share that I knew how to get more performance on the cheap and they said oh yea how do you do it? AV GAS. In a kind way they laughed and said you cant gain much that way. I inquired why not? The very well heeled experienced engine guy said that while it has anti knock properties in it, the design of this fuel is designed for high altitude and constant rpms like 3000 rpm. With todays technology they have a fuel available for every application. If you went to ANY major motorsport race in the world and asked do you guys run AV GAS ? The answer would be NO! Everyone knows about it but it wont help engines that are needing different fuel components to maximize horsepower and reliability for their engine combos. Hope this helps a little-

[gt350hr]

     I appreciate what you were told.  What you heard is "part" of the story and not false. "Some" of the rest is , no highway taxes are paid on it ( the biggest reason), it has lead so it's technically illegal. The formulation is not "ideal" for a racing engine , no question about that.
     Years ago I used to use the "green" AV gas . This was before the reformulation to "blue" Low  Lead 100. When it changed  I asked a friend who was a chemist for Conoco in the Santa Maria area regarding me still using it. He suggested that it should be mixed with pump gas to no more than 50% and not used above 11-1 static compression. "He" claimed that  the additive package WAS altered and not "happy" at sea level in undiluted form. Only the "purple" ( military helicopter fuel) was still OK to use.  I quit using it at that point.
   My current fuel of choice for my racecar is Sunoco 110 , which "I" feel is better than VP.
    Randy

[Side-Oilers]

I spent quite a bit of time at Jennings' Dyno Shop in the SF Valley in the 1980s.  Bob was a great guy. Very knowledgeable and willing to share his expertise.

You never knew who would drop by the shop. Like 427heaven said, a lot of big name racers and engine builders.  Plenty of magazine articles were done there, and the cars put on the dyno rollers.

Bob hung onto his shop until the bitter end, fifteen or so years ago, when no one needed (so it seemed) a vintage dyno shop with an old guy at the helm, in a kinda grimy little industrial strip in the San Fernando Valley.  Too bad.  Bob passed away several years ago.

A good friend still stays in touch with Bob's son Nick.  He's in the movie car business, wrenching on many of the vehicles in today's action films.

[oldcanuck]

Bob,

Redlines lead additive has been used amongst the '20's thru '50's car crowd for years, one bottle treats 20 gallons of fuel. Shop around I think one can find it cheaper than Redlines link below. Your car should run fine on 93 octane, especially the kind without the corn additive. 

https://www.redlineoil.com/lead-substitute

Steven,

Thanks..... I'm not aware of anyplace around where we live that sells 93 octane without ethanol. There are some Weigle's that sell 100% gasoline here but only 89 octane as far as I know. There is a Pilot that has 110 pump leaded race fuel, buts that's over in Roane County.

BG

[CSX 4133]

Bob,

Here's one...

https://www.pure-gas.org/station?station_id=9641

pure-gas.org has a list by city if this one doesn't work.  Do you know the location of the Pilot selling 110?

[shelbydoug]

One thing about 110 that I noticed wasn't mentioned, is that you need to store it in a certain way.

You need to store it in a container that is sealed tight against the atmosphere. Some of the octane modifiers added to it will evaporate and you will loose some of the higher octane if you don't.

In the case of a Mustang, you can't store it in the cars gas tank if it has a vented cap. It needs to be completely sealed.

Pump unleaded is much less susceptible to that.


Here, we used to buy VP in 50 gallon drums. You would put a hand pump on the drum and just pump in maybe 5 gallons at a time into your tank.

Being in NY though was a problem, sort of. The gas was in NJ and all of the river crossings are restricting crossing with the volatility of the fuel in the drum. The bridge authority considers it an explosive device. Normally you can get a drum delivered by the seller but in this case they can't cross the bridge.

So the solution was to go pick it up yourself in an enclosed Econoline, drive it across at your own perill. If the van blew up, it wouldn't matter to you because you would be dead anyway.

I'll tell you also that even though the drum is sealed closed, you still smell the fumes. Don't worry though. If you are pretty young and healthy, you'll only be sick for a couple of days and your appetite for food will normally come back. NP.

You need a certain type of property to keep it at and it would be better to store it in a concrete block building in an industrial zoned area. You can not by law keep it in a residential zoned area. The place will smell like a gas station where you keep the drum and really is doubtful you should store it around an area with any living thing within about 50 feet of it?

You MAY also find that when the drum is empty, you can't get rid of it anywhere. You're stuck with it?

[Royce Peterson]

Lots of bad information there Doug. Since when is it not legal to store gasoline in gas cans anywhere? It isn't.

My 428CJ seems happy enough on super unleaded. The pure gas / no ethanol kind is available everywhere here in Tulsa.

Meanwhile the 427 in my other car is not happy on anything less than a 50/50 mix of race gas and super unleaded. It really has 10.9:1 compression - it is factory stock - so I get 110 octane VP in 5 gallon cans. Typically I do not run below 1/2 tank so 3 gallons of race gas and 3 gallons of pump gas and it's happy. I drive my cars maybe 1000 miles each per year so it's not a lot of money to keep the one full of the fuel it likes. 

Avgas is great stuff too but you have to run a higher percentage in order to get the same results because it is only 100 octane while VP110 is 110 octane. Back when I worked on airplanes for a living I would occasionally get a 55 gallon drum or two free. Those were great times! Avgas must perform as well at takeoff as it does at altitude so saying that Avgas is not going to be 100 octane at sea level but then is magically 100 octane at altitude is incorrect. Octane is octane.

Another wonderful thing about Avgas is that it can be stored for up to 12 months with very little degradation. The bad thing about Avgas is that road taxes are not paid on it so there could be serious legal problems if you were to tell the wrong guy about using it on the street.

[gt350hr]

   Royce my chemist friend said nothing about the "octane" characteristics at seal level. As you mentioned that can't change. He said the fuel was "formulated" for "altitude above sea level" with specific additives to perform better "up there" than at sea level. He also mentioned it was "good for a year in the ground" unlike "highway gas". With him having a PHD in chemistry , I took his advice.

[shelbydoug]

Lots of bad information there Doug. Since when is it not legal to store gasoline in gas cans anywhere? It isn't.

My 428CJ seems happy enough on super unleaded. The pure gas / no ethanol kind is available everywhere here in Tulsa.

Meanwhile the 427 in my other car is not happy on anything less than a 50/50 mix of race gas and super unleaded. It really has 10.9:1 compression - it is factory stock - so I get 110 octane VP in 5 gallon cans. Typically I do not run below 1/2 tank so 3 gallons of race gas and 3 gallons of pump gas and it's happy. I drive my cars maybe 1000 miles each per year so it's not a lot of money to keep the one full of the fuel it likes. 

Avgas is great stuff too but you have to run a higher percentage in order to get the same results because it is only 100 octane while VP110 is 110 octane. Back when I worked on airplanes for a living I would occasionally get a 55 gallon drum or two free. Those were great times! Avgas must perform as well at takeoff as it does at altitude so saying that Avgas is not going to be 100 octane at sea level but then is magically 100 octane at altitude is incorrect. Octane is octane.

Another wonderful thing about Avgas is that it can be stored for up to 12 months with very little degradation. The bad thing about Avgas is that road taxes are not paid on it so there could be serious legal problems if you were to tell the wrong guy about using it on the street.

Well Royce, you wouldn't be happy living here. We have these things called building and zoning codes.

You can keep up to 5 gallons in some places and in others the Fire Departments limit that to one gallon.

That's the cost of civilization. There are rules.


Let's see? So far I've stepped on your toes as far as you selling off your W code Mustangs and now racing gas?

Anything else that pisses you off? You yokels are somethin' else.

[oldcanuck]

Bob,

Here's one...

https://www.pure-gas.org/station?station_id=9641

pure-gas.org has a list by city if this one doesn't work.  Do you know the location of the Pilot selling 110?

Steven,

Yes.... Exit 355 west on I-40 just this side of Kingston.  One white pump sitting in the middle,  of the middle island. A deal in my opinion at $7.50 per gallon.

BG