SAAC is not living up to it's purpose

[mlplunkett]

After several months of membership and forum interaction I need to get something off my chest. SAAC is not living up to it's purpose. The statement of purpose on the home page reads:

"Dedicated to the care, preservation, history, and enjoyment of the world championship cars from Shelby American, and the cars they have inspired from 1962 to today. Ownership is not required for membership-just enthusiasm."

I think it's worth noting that exactly half of that entire statement is directed to people who do NOT own a Shelby. I do not own a Shelby but have been a fan of Shelby, and his cars, since the company was formed. I built scale models of the cars while they were beating Ferrari at Lemans. I started a car fund about 30 years ago to pigeon hole any spare $ so that some day I could buy a mustang without cutting into the family budget and build as close to a real Shelby as I was able to build. I had decided that a 67 GT500 was my goal long before "Gone in 60 Seconds" hit the screen (I still don't appreciate Eleanors). Even the classic 67 DONZI I restored got turned into a Shelby. I am now retired and working on two Shelby tribute cars, a 67 GT500 and a 65 R-model and have spent countless hours scouring this forum for info on correct parts and modifications. When I can't find the info I need I post a request knowing that there are world class experts that monitor this forum daily. What I have found is that the leadership of this forum has decided that I am not worthy, that ownership in fact IS required, and that enthusiasm is NOT enough to deserve the assistance that SAAC has the ability to provide to it's members. I recently asked some very simple questions on engine parts (in the "Replicas and Tribute" forum) and got essentially NO response.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=9848.0

In previous posts the experts have let debates about correct parts go on for days without bothering to post an authoritative answer to a simple question. This kind of "freeze out" doesn't happen by accident. The leadership of this organization has a problem. By your actions you make a joke of the statement on your home page.

If you are actually interested in preserving interest (ownership AND enthusiasm) in the Shelby story you might consider that more people are going to get a chance to look over my correctly modified "Tribute" car than will ever have a chance to look over an actual Shelby because I will probably drive my car more and take it to more events than the vast majority of original car owners. Young potential classic car fans that will NEVER have opportunity to see an actual R-Model will see my car and understand what kind of car Ken Miles drove to win a world championship by beating the corvettes and XKE's. Why would you choose to not support that opportunity to promote the Shelby story?

The ball is in your court. You can respond by further blackballing me and others like me or you can make some fundamental changes and live up to your potential as an organization that actually DOES support those who are enthusiastic about the cars that Shelby produced AND the cars that they inspired. I hope you chose the path of greater influence. I hope to have a reason to be a SAAC Member for years to come. Thanks for the assistance that HAS been provided by your members. It is vital to my success.

Mickey

[shelbydoug]

Tisk, tisk.

There is no requirement of anyone here to post anything. There are no official agents of SAAC here assigned to answer your questions.

Most of us will post when we think that we can help. If we don't know, then there  likelyis nothing to post?


I personally have no issue with people building tribute cars but it does occur to me that some come here asking expecting an instruction manual, which doesn't exist.

Logically there is a point at which a tribute crosses over into a counterfeit? When someone asks for "what's the right die set to use to stamp the Shelby VIN tag with, that may have just crossed the line.


Now I doubt that anyone can justify printing replica $100 bills by telling the US Secret Service they are "tributes" but I suppose that's worth a shot?


Personally I will continue to try to help where I can within reason and I am sure others will as well. The issue is that we all will have our own personal limits on how much often proprietary information to share.

Some of us know more then others but few if any know absolutely everything about these cars?

Recently, this Forum as been MUCH MORE FORTHCOMING WITH HELP.


Now I can tell you that I've asked questions specifically about what "production line '67 GT500's parts should be" and was told SPECIFICALLY, "that's all I'm going to tell you, figure it out for yourself". So why should it be any different for you? That's just the way it is.

Take what you can here and consider it fortunate. If you can find a better source, power to you. Best of luck on your endeavors.

[roddster]

  I don't recall any memo about black balling ANYONE who doesn't own a real Cobra, Shelby, Series one, Chrysler based Shelby at all.
   So where is this comming from?  Love them all.  I have owned a real 67 GT 350 for more than 49 years, and, I do recall, years back , shunning the clones.  There was a while where if you even replaced a floor section, that car too was shunned. Now I'm well along the way to building a tribute.  I think we're past that stage. 
   I have no idea what you have asked and didn't get an answer to, but, with perseverance, you find what you are looking for.  Right here on the SAAC forum.

[davez]

Mickey
How do you feel you are being "blackballed".  You asked about ac parts on a 67 500. I own a non ac 350.
Just a breif glance through my registry and I barely counted 5 cars with AC. I don't know the total production figures but Its a small number of cars. Not going to be too many people who know this. Might be the same parts as a 390 mustang with air. Might be the same as  68 . Might not though. Do you want a day 1 assembly line answer or what will work answer?
What is your solution?  Should SAAC have a full time parts guy who knows every part number of every subset of cars built. Should this person be  24 7  full time ready to answer any and all questions? There might be 10 Shelby guys on the planet that could answer right away what you are asking.
Bob Gaines amazingly answers  more things then I can keep track of. It's all volunteer here. Some questions like that you may get answers by going to car shows, calling AC restoration places, mustang restoration places.
I may also be incorrect on this but the people in charge of the SAAC club and this SAAC forum are not the same people.

[mlplunkett]

I knew this post would be controversial and I'm not a crybaby, I just want the forum to live up to it's potential. I also go to the "fordfe.com" and "fepower.net" forums in an attempt to keep from wearing out my welcome here and often see responses to specific questions about the GT500 setup that offer a potential answer and then add "but if you want to be sure, you should check the SAAC forum because that's were the experts are". That's good advice but it only helps if those experts are willing to answer a question. I'm aware that AC cars are rare, hence my care to get the correct answers to specific parts needs. I'm aware that input here is voluntary and I'm not claiming that anyone has an obligation to meet my needs. I'm only pointing out that when someone reads a post, knows the answer, and chooses not to reply, that the resulting forum is less than it could be and is less than the claim on the Web site. I very much appreciate all the help that I have received. I am just frustrated that some of the folks who are best equipped to help have chosen to stay on the sidelines all too often. I don't get it. I would never choose to leave someone hanging if all I had to do to help them with their project is type a sentence.

[chris NOS]

your question is 3 days old , really specific , (me i have no clue if it's correct or no ) , there's is so many posts on this forum with many questions asked , i almost only read 65,66 posts , sometimes 67,68 , almost never 69/70 , if the knowledges guys here are going on every new posts it must takes hours !
sometime you need to be patient to get the right guy on the right post !
And about Shelby's owners ,please 67 GT350 ,don't generalise , i love to talk  with owners of Mustang or other cars , (i m a mopar guy too..)

[Krelboyne]

Mickey, I was going to try and answer your question on the A/C parts too.
You say you asked a simple question, for an accurate recreation. There is not a simple answer to your question, as has been answered above. There are too many potential 'gotchas' in going down that road. I am here to learn, and share my Ford knowledge when I think that it is applicable.

Like Dave said above, you most likely can't go wrong by using the 1967 Mustang 390 parts.

Don't get discouraged, we get pointed restoration questions at the shop all of the time. In the time allowed, we can offer limited basic advice. Mostly it is "use the search function on a growing list of forums".
A good source is: www.concoursmustang.com forum. There you can find advanced, quality, Mustang restoration information and techniques. Many of the same guys are over there too. Key thing: don't copy what you see on one car. Mustangs came out of 3 factories, they all can have different practices, chalk marks, details, suppliers, etc.

Another suggestion, go to MCA events. Use your camera and take lots of pictures, ask questions to the owners if they are willing to talk. Not all will be able to do a brain dump of quality information, at will.

SAAC is a great source, but so much of the archived information got lost a while back with the server crash. Lots of the guys use the search function to retrieve old information to answer new questions. It sucks, I know.

[BGlover67]

Wow, I'm really surprised at the tone of your post.  No one is getting paid to monitor this forum, especially the moderators.  If the 'experts' have the time, they will generally pitch in and answer any reasonable question posted here.  I have never seen it based on whether or not someone owns an original Shelby.  In fact, if you hadn't mentioned that you were building a repo, I don't think most folks would have figured that out just from your choice of section to post in alone.  These are difficult times, and everyone is a bit on edge.  Being cooped up with your family for a couple weeks will do that.  I hope you find the answers to your questions.

Good luck!

[Greg]

I think you need to set back and look at your email from the "experts" perspective.  A lot of these guys have been asked the same questions over and over and over again.  Now from my experience, everyone helps when asked but I also come at it asking and not expecting everyone to jump in to answer.  After all, we all have lives outside of the SAAC.

I have also built relationships with folks where I can call them and they can call me or we email directly.  The duty is upon you to research, attend meets, travel to see a car and network.  Guess what, that is how the experts became the experts.  I bet if you asked them most would say YES I drove 20hrs just to see this or that car. 

So just relax and make the connections, do your part instead of just expecting the easy way to work.

[Bill]

See my post on your other thread:

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=9848.new#new

Enough said


Bill

[2112]

Speaking for myself, I almost never attempt to answer questions because I don't consider myself an expert.

[mlplunkett]

See my post on your other thread:

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=9848.new#new

Enough said


Bill

Bill, with all due respect (and I really mean that) if I did any of the things you said "don't do" then that would be enough said. My original comments weren't about one post it was about my larger experience on the forum. I included a reference to my latest post as an example of the larger issue. Does anybody really believe that nobody on this forum has seen that post that can tell me if those are the correct alternator brackets for an AC car? I didn't try to give an exhaustive history of my experience because that would be quite boring and I'm not going to turn this into an ongoing debate with everyone who responds because I still value this forum and the potential friendships that may develop as I work through my projects but when longtime forum members feel like they have to contact you offline and offer to assist you outside the forum because they don't want to suffer repercussions from other forum members that don't want to assist "clone builders" then I'm obviously not the only one who is aware of this issue. This is a real issue at the SAAC forum. It's not a matter of my impatience. I'm not the only one that's aware of it. This would be a better forum if this problem/attitude didn't exist. IMHO.

[Coralsnake]

You don't have to convince me the forum has changed. I know very little about 1967s, and I am thinking there is a reason why you didnt ask your questions on Facebook, the movie forum, a political forum or the piano forum? If I could answer your questions, what would be my in incentive to wade through all that garbage?

I have been suggesting change for years, so welcome to the new forum. The people who want a social experience (not a car forum) are winning, so enjoy the lounge.

[TOBKOB]

Patience Grasshopper,   There is an awful lot of information already on this forum. If you sit down like I have done and start reading from the earliest post up to the most recent you will find the answer to most questions you might have. I too have been frustrated a few times when I didn't get an answer but I would wait a few days before asking again because I realize everyone here is just another member (some more knowledgeable) than others and they do have other lives, so be patient, (by the way I do own a Shelby).
FYI, the search everyone mentions is not Google but the search button on this forum. I say this trying to be helpful not hateful.

TOB

[Chris Thauberger]

You don't have to convince me the forum has changed. I know very little about 1967s, and I am thinking there is a reason why you didnt ask your questions on Facebook, the movie forum, a political forum or the piano forum? If I could answer your questions, what would be my in incentive to wade through all that garbage?

I have been suggesting change for years, so welcome to the new forum. The people who want a social experience (not a car forum) are winning, so enjoy the lounge.

+1